Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà
MedNavigator.ru - Ïîèñê è ïîäáîð ëå÷åíèÿ â Ðîññèè è çà ðóáåæîì
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 19.08.2005, 15:52
maxwell010 maxwell010 âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 04.08.2005
Ãîðîä: Äîíåöê. Óêðàèíà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 39
maxwell010 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò íå î÷åíü õîðîøóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
ÈÔÐ-I

äî 3 ëåò: 16-215 ng/ml
3-6 ëåò: 58-159 ng/ml
6-9 ëåò: 64-406 ng/ml
9-12 ëåò: 38-318 ng/ml
12-15 ëåò: 39-537 ng/ml
19-24 ëåò 49-550 ng/ml
25-29 ëåò: 62-280 ng/ml
30-39 ëåò: 40-280 ng/ml
40-49 ëåò: 40-256 ng/ml
50-59 ëåò: 66-310 ng/ml
ïîñëå 60 ëåò: 118-314 ng/ml

ìîæåò ëè áûòü ïîäîáíàÿ òàáëèöà âàðèàíòîì íîðìû äëÿ ÈÔÐ-I, äåëî â òîì, ÷òî ìåíÿ ñìóùàåò îòñóòñòâèå òåíäåíöèè óìåíüøåíèÿ âåðõíåé ãðàíèöû (40-49 - 256, 50-59 - 310). Ëîãèêà âåäü êàêîâà - ñ âîçðàñòîì ïðîäóêöèÿ ÃÐ óìåíüøàåòñÿ, ñëåäîâàòåëüíî äîëæíà
óìåíüøàòñÿ è ïðîäóêöèÿ ÈÔÐ-I. À â ñëó÷àå ñ ýòîé òàáëèöåé ïîëó÷àåòñÿ, ÷òî âåðõíÿÿ ãðàíèöà íîðìû ó òåõ êîìó çà 50 áîëüøå, ÷åì ó òåõ êîìó 30-40.
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 19.08.2005, 16:04
Àâàòàð äëÿ Light
Light Light âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,773
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,254 ðàç(à) çà 1,110 ñîîáùåíèé
Light ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
À îòêóäà Âû âçÿëè ýòè íîðìû?
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 19.08.2005, 16:40
maxwell010 maxwell010 âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 04.08.2005
Ãîðîä: Äîíåöê. Óêðàèíà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 39
maxwell010 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò íå î÷åíü õîðîøóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ïðîñèë ëàáîðàòîðèþ [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] âûñëàòü íîðìû
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 19.08.2005, 16:46
Àâàòàð äëÿ Light
Light Light âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,773
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,254 ðàç(à) çà 1,110 ñîîáùåíèé
Light ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
ß íå çíàþ òî÷íîãî îòâåòà íà Âàø âîïðîñ (íàäî ïî÷èòàòü ïî ÈÔÐ), íî ïðåäïîëàãàþ ñëåäóþùåå.
Íîðìû óñòàíàâëèâàþòñÿ ïî ñðåäíèì çíà÷åíèÿì â âûáîðêå çäîðîâûõ ëèö.
Ëèöà ñòàðøå 50 ëåò ÷àùå èìåþò îæèðåíèå, ÷åì ôåðòèëüíàÿ ÷àñòü ïîïóëÿöèè. À ÈÔÐ-1 âûðàáàòûâàåòñÿ, â ÷àñòíîñòè, àäèïîöèòàìè.
Âîò òàêàÿ ãèïîòåçà î ñìóùàþùèõ Âàñ íîðìàõ.
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 19.08.2005, 16:50
maxwell010 maxwell010 âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 04.08.2005
Ãîðîä: Äîíåöê. Óêðàèíà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 39
maxwell010 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò íå î÷åíü õîðîøóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Light
ß íå çíàþ òî÷íîãî îòâåòà íà Âàø âîïðîñ (íàäî ïî÷èòàòü ïî ÈÔÐ), íî ïðåäïîëàãàþ ñëåäóþùåå.
Íîðìû óñòàíàâëèâàþòñÿ ïî ñðåäíèì çíà÷åíèÿì â âûáîðêå çäîðîâûõ ëèö.
Ëèöà ñòàðøå 50 ëåò ÷àùå èìåþò îæèðåíèå, ÷åì ôåðòèëüíàÿ ÷àñòü ïîïóëÿöèè. À ÈÔÐ-1 âûðàáàòûâàåòñÿ, â ÷àñòíîñòè, àäèïîöèòàìè.
Âîò òàêàÿ ãèïîòåçà î ñìóùàþùèõ Âàñ íîðìàõ.
Òàê âåäü êîëè÷åñòâî æèðà è êîë-âî ÈÔÐ-I â êðîâè îáðàòíî ïðîïîðöèîíàëüíû. Îá ýòîì ãîâîðÿò â ìíîãî÷èñëåííûõ ïóáëèêàöèÿõ
âåäóùèå ýíäîêðèíîëîãè. Ðàçâå ýòî íå òàê?
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 19.08.2005, 16:59
Àâàòàð äëÿ Light
Light Light âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,773
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,254 ðàç(à) çà 1,110 ñîîáùåíèé
Light ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Åñëè ó Âàñ åñòü ññûëêè, ïîæàëóéñòà äàéòå. ß ïîñìîòðþ ïóáëèêàöèè. Ïîêà áåðó òàéì-àóò.
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 19.08.2005, 17:31
maxwell010 maxwell010 âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 04.08.2005
Ãîðîä: Äîíåöê. Óêðàèíà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 39
maxwell010 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò íå î÷åíü õîðîøóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Light
Åñëè ó Âàñ åñòü ññûëêè, ïîæàëóéñòà äàéòå. ß ïîñìîòðþ ïóáëèêàöèè. Ïîêà áåðó òàéì-àóò.
Ïî ìîåìó îäíîé AACE äîñòàòî÷íî, âîò âûäåðæêà ñ èõ ñàéòà:

"...The effects of GH and IGF-I on muscle and
bone metabolism seem to be synergistic. Both hormones
increase muscle mass, activate bone remodeling units, and
improve bone density. Although IGF-I in serum is predominantly
of hepatic origin (85%)....."

"...The term
“somatopause” has been used by some investigators to
suggest that normal aging is associated with a gradual
decline in secretion of GH accompanied by a decrease in
bone mass and lean body mass as well as an increase in
adipose mass..."

[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]



"...In aging men, GH secretion declines by 50% every 7 years
after age 18-25 years...."

[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] growth-hormone-replacement-in-older-men.htm



"...GH in circulation acts on many tissues and organs.
One of the main tasks of GH is to increase the production
of a substance by the liver, called Insulin-like Growth
Factor-I (IGF-I). Circulating IGF-I levels undergo important
age-related variations increasing at puberty and decreasing,
thereafter, to low levels in the elderly. Low IGF-I levels
in the elderly mainly reflect impaired GH secretion but the
decline in gonadal sex steroid levels, and malnutrition may
also play a role in the age-related decrease in IGF-I activity.
This, in turn, partially accounts for age-related changes in
bones, muscles, cardiovascular system, central nervous system
and the immune system...."

[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 19.08.2005, 18:03
Àâàòàð äëÿ Light
Light Light âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,773
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,254 ðàç(à) çà 1,110 ñîîáùåíèé
Light ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Íà ñàìîì äåëå, ñ ÈÔÐ-1 íå âñ¸ ïðîñòî. Îí ìíîãî îò ÷åãî çàâèñèò, äàæå îò ðåæèìà ïèòàíèÿ...
"Sequential, randomized trial of a low-fat, high-fiber diet and soy supplementation: effects on circulating IGF-I and its binding proteins in premenopausal women.

Gann PH, Kazer R, Chatterton R, Gapstur S, Thedford K, Helenowski I, Giovanazzi S, Van Horn L.

Department of Preventive Medicine, Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University, Chicago, IL 60611, USA. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Despite evidence supporting the involvement of the IGF system in the development of breast and other cancers, the major determinants of interindividual variability in circulatory IGF-I levels are not well understood. Previous research has pointed to important genetic influences as well as dietary effects through marked calorie or protein restriction. We conducted a randomized trial to determine the effects of 2 dietary patterns on serum IGF-1, IGFBP1 and IGFBP3 in free-living premenopausal women: phase 1, an isocaloric low-fat, high-fiber (LFHF) vs. usual diet, and phase 2, a soy supplement either with or without isoflavones (soy+IF vs. soy-IF). Participants completed 12 menstrual cycles on phase 1 and then were randomly assigned to a soy supplement for 3 cycles while maintaining the phase 1 diet. Before and after each phase, 154 women provided serum. We found no difference in the change in IGF-I, BP1 or BP3 in the LFHF group compared to the usual diet group. In phase 2, there were no differences in any IGF protein between the soy+IF and the soy-IF groups or any evidence of interaction between isoflavone exposure and the background diet. However, there was a small but statistically significant decrease (2.3%) in BP3 and an increase in the IGF-I:BP3 molar ratio among all 153 subjects following either soy supplement. These changes were correlated with changes in intake of calcium, total vegetable protein and soy. The results are compatible with previous data suggesting that increases in dietary calcium, protein and soy, in particular, could increase circulating levels of bioavailable IGF-I. Copyright 2005 Wiley-Liss, Inc."

Âîò çäåñü ìíîãî ññûëîê ïî èíòåðåñóþùåé Âàñ òåìå. Ïîñìîòðèòå, ïîæàëóéñòà:
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
  #9  
Ñòàðûé 19.08.2005, 19:35
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,275
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,622 ðàç(à) çà 32,696 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ìàêñâåëë ! Âåäóùèå ýíäîêðèíîëîãè, êîãäà ðàçîéäóòñÿ, è íå òî íàãîâîðÿò- ïðî ñâÿçûâàþùèå ÈÏÐÔ áåëêè íå õîòèòå ?
Ïðî ðîëü äðóãèõ ãîðìîíîâ ? Äàâàéòå åùå ðàç- ãîðìîíû ïðèäóìàëè íå äëÿ òîãî, ÷òîáû óìíûå ìàëü÷èêè èõ ñìîòðåëè ó ñåáÿ, à ïîòîì äîñòàâàëè îêðóæàþùèõ îòêëîíåíèÿìè îò íðàâÿùèõñÿ èì ñòàíäðàòîâ.
Îáñëåäîâàíèå ËÞÁÎÃÎ ïàöèåíòà ñòðîèòñÿ ïî ñëåäóþùåìó ïëàíó - æàëîáû - îñìîòð- äèàãíîñòè÷åñêàÿ ãèïîòåçà-îáñëåäîâàíèå, íàïðàâëåííîå íà åå ïîäòâåðæäåíèå, îáñëåäîâàíèå, íàïðàâëåííîå íà èñêëþ÷åíèå ïîòåíöèàëüíî âîçìîæíûõ ñõîäíûõ, íî ìåíåå âåðîÿòíûõ ñèòóàöèé.
Ó Âàñ ïðîáëåìû, Âû íàì î íèõ ïèñàëè . Âðà÷- àíàëèçû, êîòîðûå îí íàçíà÷èò- îáñóæäåíèå ïðîáëåì. È ïîéäèòå ïîãóëÿéòå.
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
  #10  
Ñòàðûé 20.08.2005, 12:15
maxwell010 maxwell010 âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 04.08.2005
Ãîðîä: Äîíåöê. Óêðàèíà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 39
maxwell010 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò íå î÷åíü õîðîøóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Óâàæàåìàÿ ãîñïîæà Ìåëüíè÷åíêî,

ß âîîáùå-òî íå ìåäèê. Ñïîðèòü î ãîðìîíàõ ìíå íå äîñòàâëÿåò îñîáîãî óäîâîëüñòâèÿ. ß ñîâñåì íå ðàä, ÷òî òîãäà ñâÿçàëñÿ òîãäà ñ ñîìàòðîïèíîì èíñóëèíîì è ìåòàíäðîñòåíîëîíîì. Õîòÿ áû àíãèîïàòèÿ ñåò÷àòêè(ïîòàâëåííàÿ îêóëèñòîì) ïîñëå ýòîãî íàâîäèò íà ìûñëü î ñåðüåçíûõ ïîñëåäñòâèÿõ. À ïî÷åìó ÿ ñïîðþ, òàê ýòî ïîòîìó, ÷òî ÿ íå äîâåðÿþ âñåì âðà÷àì, ïîòîìó ÷òî ïî äàííûì ÌÐÒ òîëüêî îäèí èç 5 íåâðîïàòîëîãîâ ïîñòàâèëâ çàêëþ÷åíèè ïðèçíàêè ëåãêîé ãèäðîöåôàëèè.
Ëåãêàÿ/íå ëåãêàÿ.

À âîò èñòîðèÿ ñ ýíäîêðèíîëîãàìè: îäíà ïîñòàâèëà ìíå ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêèé ñèíäðîì è ïîñëå ÓÇÈ ùèòîâèäíîé æåëåçû äèôôóçíûé çîá I ýóòèðåîç. Äðóãàÿ ïðî ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêèé ñèíäðîì íè÷åãî íå ñêàçàëà è ñêàçàëà, ÷òî âñå íîðìàëüíî. Ïîýòîìó ÿ ïûòàþñü ñàì ðàçîáðàòüñÿ â ñóòè äåëà. Îïûòà è Âàøèõ çíàíèé êîíå÷íî ÿ íå èìåþ....
  #11  
Ñòàðûé 20.08.2005, 22:22
Àâàòàð äëÿ Light
Light Light âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,773
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,254 ðàç(à) çà 1,110 ñîîáùåíèé
Light ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåLight ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò maxwell010
ß âîîáùå-òî íå ìåäèê. ... À ïî÷åìó ÿ ñïîðþ, òàê ýòî ïîòîìó, ÷òî ÿ íå äîâåðÿþ âñåì âðà÷àì... Ïîýòîìó ÿ ïûòàþñü ñàì ðàçîáðàòüñÿ â ñóòè äåëà.
Óâàæàåìûé maxwell010!
Ïðèíîøó ñâîè èçâèíåíèÿ, ÷òî âñòóïèëà ñ Âàìè â ïðîôåññèîíàëüíóþ äèñêóññèþ.
Íå ïîèíòåðåñîâàâøèñü Âàøèì ïðîôèëåì ó÷àñòíèêà ôîðóìà, ðåøèëà, ÷òî áåñåäóþ ñî ñòóäåíòîì - ìåäèêîì, ïûòàþùèìñÿ ðàçîáðàòüñÿ â îïðåäåëåííûõ âîïðîñàõ. Íèêàê íå îæèäàëà, ÷òî ïàöèåíò, îò÷àÿâøèñü ïîëó÷èòü àäåêâàòíóþ ïîìîùü, ïîëåçåò â òàêèå "çàóìíûå äåáðè".
Ïîâåðüòå, ñàìè Âû íè â ÷¸ì íå ðàçáåðåòåñü. Çàïóòàåòåñü îêîí÷àòåëüíî.
Âàì íåîõîäèìà êîíñóëüòàöèÿ âðà÷à. Òîëüêî âðà÷ ñìîæåò ðàçîáðàòüñÿ â Âàøèõ ïðîáëåìàõ è íàçíà÷èòü àäåêâàòíîå ëå÷åíèå.
Ýòó òåìó ÿ çàêðûâàþ.
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