#16
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Íåóæåëè Evidence based òîêè Áåðíàðà?
 òîì è äåëî, ÷òî "êîãäà ïèøåøü, íàïðèìåð" ëþáûå äðóãèå ñëîâà è öèôðû, è äàæå èíäóêòîðû íå ïîäêëþ÷àåøü - ðåçóëüòàòû íåîòëè÷èìûå. |
#17
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Èçâèíèòå, ó ìåíÿ åùå íåñêîëüêî âîïðîñîâ.
1) Íóæíû ëè áóäóò åùå êîíòðîëüíûå ñíèìêè. È åñëè íóæíû òî êîãäà? 2) Ïî ïîâîäó áîëüíè÷íîãî. Êòî ðåøàåò, õîðîøî ëè ôóíêöèîíèðóåò ñóñòàâ: ïàöèåíò, òðàâìàòîëîã èëè ôèçèîòåðàïåâò? 3)  ýòîì âîïðîñå ÿ íå æàëóþñü íà âðà÷à, à ïðîñòî áîþñü çà ñâîå çäîðîâüå è äåíüãè (ó íåå ìîé ëèñòîê íåòðóäîñïîñîáíîñòè). Ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ÷òî îíà çàòÿãèâàåò ïðîöåññ ëå÷åíèÿ: à) Èãíîðèðóåò âñå ÷òî ÿ ãîâîðþ á) Íå îçíàêîìèëà ñ ïðîöåññîì ëå÷åíèÿ â) Çà÷åì-òî ñîáèðàëàñü ñíèìàòü ãèïñ ÷åðåç 6 íåäåëü (õîòÿ â öêá è òðàâìïóíêòå ñêàçàëè 4 íåäåëè) ã) íàçíà÷àëà ïðîöåäóðû áåç ïîêàçàíèé - ôèçèîëå÷åíèå, î êîòîðîì øëà ðå÷ü âûøå. Åñòü ëè íàðóøåíèÿ â åå äåéñòâèÿõ? 4) Íóæíà ëè êîíñóëüòàöèÿ ôèçèîòåðàïåâòà. È êîãäà ëó÷øå îáðàòèòüñÿ ê íåìó? |
#18
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Öèòàòà:
2 âðà÷ íà ïðèåìå 3 íåãðàìîòíîñòü åñòü, íàðóøåíèé íåò 4 ![]()
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Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Äìèòðèé Âëàäèìèðîâè÷ |
#19
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Ïî 4 ïóíêòó îíà ñêàçàëà, ÷òî íàïðàâèò â ãðÿçåëå÷åáíèöó ê ôèçèîòåðàïåâòó.
Îïûò îáùåíèÿ ñ ðàáîòíèêàìè ýòîé ëå÷åáíèöû ó ìåíÿ íåãàòèâíûé. Îäíà çàäàëà âîïðîñ, íå äàëà ìíå îòâåòèòü è âñó÷èëà íàïðàâëåíèå íà ìàãíèòîòåðàïèþ, äðóãàÿ ñòîÿëà è ãëóïî õèõèêàëà, êîãäà ÿ ñïðîñèëà "çà÷åì?" |
#20
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#21
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Èçâèíÿþñü çà íàçîéëèâîñòü è íåñêîëüêî "íåóäîáíûå" âîïðîñû, ïðîñòî â ïîëèêëèíèêå ñèëüíî íàïóãàëè.
Ñïàñèáî âñåì çà îòâåòû! |
#22
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Öèòàòà:
Òåì íå ìåíåå ÄÎÊÀÇÀÍÎ è íàïèñàíî â Cohrane (à ó íèõ äàæå î÷åâèäíûå âåùè îáû÷íî ñ÷èòàþòñÿ íå äîñòàòî÷íî äîêàçàíû) "People who received electromagnetic field treatment experienced pain relief of 15 points more compared with people who received fake treatment (15% improvement)" Íà 15% áîëüøèé ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ ïëàöåáî ýôôåêò! Ýòî ìíîãî. Ýòî ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ ïëàöåáî, êîòîðîå, êàê èçâåñòíî, òîæå ðàáîòàåò)). À âñåãî óëó÷øåíèå íà 26%!!! Ýòî ìíîãî. Ê òîìó æå áîëüøèíñòâî èññëåäîâàíèé îöåíèâàþò ëèøü íåêîòîðîûå ñèìïòîìû äëÿ ñòàíäàðòèçàöèè. À ëåêàðñòâà, ïðîöåäóðû è ò.ï. äåéñòâóþò êîìïëåêñíî - íåìíîãî áîëü óìåíüøèëè, íåìíîãî îòåê, íåìíîãî àëëîäèíèþ... - è èç ýòèõ íåñêîëüêèõ íåìíîãî ïàöèåíòó ñòàíîâèòñÿ ëåã÷å óæå îùóòèìî. ß ñåé÷àñ îòñòóïëþ îò ìàãíèòîòåðàïèè)). Íå ëþáóþ áîëü ìîæíî èçìåðèòü ïî ÂÀØ. Íåéðîïàòè÷åñêàÿ áîëü ÷àñòî ïî ÂÀØ íå âûðàæåíà, íî ïàöèåíòû îò íåå ñèëüíî ñòðàäàþò. Åñòü øêàëû îöåíêè íåéðîïàòè÷åñêîé áîëè. Ïîýòîìó íå âñåãäà êîððåêòíî îöåíèâàòü äèíàìèêó áîëè òîëüêî ïî ÂÀØ. Ìàãíèòîòåðàïèÿ êàê ðàç íà íåéðîïàòè÷åñêóþ áîëü íå âëèÿåò âîîáùå. Íî äðóãèå ìåòîäû âëèÿþò. Íàïðèìåð, TENS. È âëèÿåò ïðÿìî ñðàçó â êàáèíåòå. Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, ÷àñòî íå íà äîëãî, íî ìîæíî ñðàçó ïîñëå ïðîöåäóðû íà÷àòü ðàçðàáîòêó êîíòðàêòóðû. |
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#23
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#24
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Öèòàòà:
Ryang We S1, Koog YH, Jeong KI, Wi H. Rheumatology (Oxford). 2013 May;52(5):815-24. doi: 10.1093/rheumatology/kes063. Epub 2012 Apr 13. Conclusion. The present study provided suggestive evidence supporting PEMF efficacy in the management of knee OA. 11. Pulsed electromagnetic fields in knee osteoarthritis: a double blind, placebo-controlled, randomized clinical trial. Gian Luca Bagnato, Giovanni Miceli, Natale Marino, Davide Sciortino and Gian Filippo Bagnato. Rheumatology, Volume 55, Issue 4, p. 755-762. Conclusion. These results suggest that PEMF therapy is effective for pain management in knee OA patients and also affects pain threshold and physical functioning. 12. Electromagnetic fields for treating osteoarthritis. Li S, Yu B, Zhou D, He C, Zhuo Q, Hulme JM. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2013, Issue 12. Art. No.: CD003523. DOI: 10.1002/14651858. CD003523.pub2. Authors' conclusions Current evidence suggests that electromagnetic field treatment may provide moderate benefit for osteoarthritis sufferers in terms of pain relief. 13. Effects of Pulsed Electromagnetic Field on Knee Osteoarthritis A Systematic Review Seo Ryang We; Yun Hyung Koog; Kwang-Il Jeong; Hyungsun Wi Rheumatology. 2013;52(5):815-824. Conclusion. The present study provided suggestive evidence supporting PEMF efficacy in the management of knee OA. https://forums.rusmedserv.com/showthread.php?t=378341 |
#25
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__________________
Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Äìèòðèé Âëàäèìèðîâè÷ |
#26
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Öèòàòà:
"Although we showed that PEMF was effective in improving function at 8 weeks and, for high-quality trials, in treating pain at 4 and 8 weeks, the results should be interpreted with caution. " Ó àâòîðîâ òàêæå åñòü ïðåòåíçèè êàê ê ïðîâåäåíèþ ôèçèîïðîöåäóð, òàê è ê ïëàöåáî. Öèòàòà:
![]() Öèòàòà:
Öèòàòà:
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Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Äìèòðèé Âëàäèìèðîâè÷ |
#27
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Öèòàòà:
Ïðîñòî, ìàãíèòîòåðàïèÿ íå ñàìûé ýôôåêòèâíûõ èç âñåõ ôèçèîòåðàïåâòè÷åñêèõ ìåòîäîâ. Íî ÿ åå ïî÷òè íå íàçíà÷àþ íå òîëüêî ïîýòîìó, à åùå è ïîòîìó, ÷òî åñëè ïîñëàòü íà óäàðíî-âîëíîâóþ òåðàïèþ è ÓÂ×, íàïðèìåð, òî áîëüøå øàíñîâ, ÷òî ïàöèåíò ïîïàäåò â êàêîé-òî öåíòð ñ áîëåå-ìåíåå íîðìàëüíûì îáîðóäîâàíèåì è ïåðñîíàëîì (íå ãàðàíòèÿ, êîíå÷íî). À åñëè ÿ ïîñûëàþ íà ìàãíèòîòåðàïèþ, òî â ïîëîâèíå ñëó÷àåâ ýòî çàêàí÷èâàåòñÿ ñîâêîâîé ïîëèêëèíèêîé áåç ôèçèîòåðàïåâòà è ñ ìåäñåñòðîé-ïåíñèîíåðêîé,êîòîðûé îäíîãî âîçðàñòà ñ àïïàðàòîì, è ñîîòâåòñòâåííî îòñóòñòâèåì ýôôåêòà. |
#28
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Êàê ðàç íîðìàëüíî ñðàâíèâàòü ðåçóëüòàòû ëå÷åíèÿ íà îäíîì àïïàðàòå. Ýòî ñòàíäàðòèçàöèÿ. È íîðìàëüíî îæèäàòü, ÷òî íà ðàçíûõ àïïàðàòàõ ðåçóëüòàòû áóäóò ðàçíûìè.
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#29
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#30
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CONCLUSIONS:
PEMF could alleviate pain and improve physical function for patients with knee and hand OA, but not for patients with cervical OA. Meanwhile, a short PEMF treatment duration (within 30 min) may achieve more favourable efficacy. However, given the limited number of study available in hand and cervical OA, the implication of this conclusion should be cautious for hand and cervical OA. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] |