Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà
MedNavigator.ru - Ïîèñê è ïîäáîð ëå÷åíèÿ â Ðîññèè è çà ðóáåæîì

Âåðíóòüñÿ   Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà > Ôîðóìû âðà÷åáíûõ êîíñóëüòàöèé > Õèðóðãèÿ > Ôîðóì äëÿ îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé-õèðóðãîâ

Îòâåò
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 25.10.2009, 16:29
Baculevson Baculevson âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 08.06.2007
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 28
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 2
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 2 ðàç(à) çà 2 ñîîáùåíèé
Baculevson î ðåïóòàöèè ýòîãî ó÷àñòíèêà íåëüçÿ ñêàçàòü íè÷åãî îïðåäåëåííîãî
Exclamation Äèôôåðåíöèàëüíûé äèàãíîç òðîôè÷åcêèõ ÿçâ

Äîáðûé äåíü êîëåãè. Õîòåë áû ÷òîáû ê îáñóæäåíèþ ïðèñîåäèíèëèñü òåðàïåâòû, õèðóãè, ýíäîêðèíîëîãè, äåðìàòîëîãè. Íåñêîëüêî ðàç ñòàëêèâàëñÿ ñ òàêèìè êëèíè÷åñêèìè ñëó÷àÿìè ê òÿæåëîìó äåêîìïåíñèðîâàííîìó ïàöèåíòó âûçûâàþò õèðóðãà ñ äèàãíîçîì òðîôè÷åñêèå ÿçâû ãîëåíè. Ïðè îñìîòðå ïàöèåíòû óïóùåííûå òåðàïåâòàìè ñ çàñòîåì â ÁÊÊ è ÌÊÊ: îðòîñòàòè÷åñêîå ïîëîæåíèå, óäóøüå, âûðàæåííûå îòåêè, àðòåðèàëüíàÿ ãèïåðòåíçèÿ ñàõàðíûé äèàáåò-äåêîìïåíñàöèÿ. Íà ãîëåíÿõ â ñðåäíåé òðåòè ìîêíóùèå ýêçåìû(âîçìîæíî ðàíåå áûëè ïóçûðÿìè) ñ âòîðè÷íûì èíôèöèðîâàíèåì ñ ãíîéíûì îòäåëÿìûì, íåïîõîæèå íà îáû÷íûå òðîôè÷åñêèå ÿçâû ïðè äåêîìïåíñàöèè âåíîçíîãî êðîâîîáðàùåíèÿ. Õîòÿ ÿ è íå îòðèöàþ, ÷òî âòîðè÷íàÿ âåíîçíàÿ íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòü êîíå÷íî åñòü.

Êàêîé çäåñü äèàãíîç è êàê ïðàâèëüíî ëå÷èòü åñëè êàêèå-òî ñòàíäàðòû.? Òàê êàê ïîíÿòíî ÷òî òîëüêî õèðóðãè÷åñêîå ëå÷åíèå ýôôåêòà íå äàñò, à êîãäà ïûòàåøüñÿ â îäèíî÷êó ëå÷èòü ïåðâè÷íóþ ïàòîëîãèþ ïîòîì "âñå øèøêè âñå ðàâíî íà òâîþ ãîëîâó"

Ìîæíî ëè ñ÷èòàòü îïèñàíóþ ìíîþ êëèíè÷åñêóþ ñèòóàöèþ ïðèãîâîðîì äëÿ ïàöèåíòà è ÷òî ðóññêàÿ ìåäèöèíà çäåñü áåññèëüíà?

Ïðè íåîáõîäèìîñòè áóäó ðàä îòâåòèòü íà óòî÷íÿþùèå âîïðîñû, ãëàâîå äëÿ ñåáÿ ðàçîáðàòüñÿ êàê ëå÷èòü, ìîæíî ëè àìáóëàòîðíî èëè îáÿçàòåëüíà ãîñïèòàëèçàöèÿ. Åñëè òàêèå ïàöèåíòû â Åâðîïå.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 25.10.2009, 20:08
Àâàòàð äëÿ o_udovichenko
o_udovichenko o_udovichenko âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 25.05.2007
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,052
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 118 ðàç(à) çà 101 ñîîáùåíèé
o_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Õîðîøèé âîïðîñ..... Ìîãó âûñêàçàòü ñâîå IMHO
ß, ðàáîòàÿ â êàáèíåòå "Äèàáåòè÷åñêàÿ ñòîïà" (àìáóëàòîðíîì), ðåãóëÿðíî ñòàëêèâàþñü ñ ïàöèåíòàìè ñ ñàõàðíûì äèàáåòîì è òðîôè÷åñêèìè ÿçâàìè ãîëåíè.
 áîëüøèíñòâå ñëó÷àåâ îíè íå èìåþò õàðàêòåðíûõ ïðèçíàêîâ "âåíîçíûõ" òðîôè÷åñêèõ ÿçâ ïðè ÕÂÍ (òèïè÷íàÿ ëîêàëèçàöèÿ, òèïè÷íûå äëÿ ÕÂÍ èçìåíåíèÿ êîæè âîêðóã ÿçâû (ãåìîñèäåðîç, èíäóðàöèÿ)).

Îáúÿñíèòü èõ íàëè÷èå ñ ïîçèöèé èçâåñòíûõ ìåõàíèçìîâ ïàòîãåíåçà ñèíäðîìà äèàáåòè÷åñêîé ñòîïû òîæå íå ïîëó÷àåòñÿ.

Îäèí èç âàðèàíòîâ - ýòî íåçàæèâàþùèå ïîâðåæäåíèÿ êîæè ïðè ìàññèâíûõ îòåêàõ (ñåðäå÷íàÿ íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòü è äð.), êîãäà ÷åðåç ìèíèìàëüíîå ïîâðåæäåíèå êîæè íà÷èíàåòñÿ âûðàæåííàÿ ëèìôîðåÿ, êîæà ìàöåðèðóåòñÿ, è ÿñíî, ÷òî óñëîâèÿ äëÿ çàæèâëåíèÿ â ýòîé ñèòóàöèè ïëîõèå.
 ðÿäå ñëó÷àåâ ïåðâîïðè÷èíîé ÿçâû ìîæåò áûòü ìîêíóùàÿ ãèïîñòàòè÷åñêàÿ ýêçåìà, íî çàòåì ïîâðåæäåíèå êîæè ìîæåò òðàíñôîðìèðîâàòüñÿ â ÿçâó ñ ÷åòêèìè êðàÿìè è òèïè÷íûì âèäîì ÿçâû.

Áûâàþò åùå òðîôè÷åñêèå ÿçâû ãîëåíè âñëåäñòâèå àðòåðèàëüíîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè (íà ôîíå êðèòè÷åñêîé èøåìèè êîíå÷íîñòè - ïðîâîöèðóåìûå ñëó÷àéíûì ïîâðåæäåíèåì êîæè ãîëåíè) èëè ãèàëèíîçîì àðòåðèîë ïðè òÿæåëîé àðòåðèàëüíîé ãèïåðòåíçèè (ulcus hypertonicum), íî ó íàñ ýòî ðåäêîñòü.

Ðàíüøå ìû ñ÷èòàëè âñå ÿçâû ãîëåíåé ïðè ÑÄ âåíîçíûìè ÿçâàìè (çàæèâëåíèþ êîòîðûõ, êîíå÷íî æå, ìåøàåò ãèïåðãëèêåìèÿ). Íî íà îäíîé êîíôåðåíöèè ÿ ïîäâåðãñÿ çà ýòî êðèòèêå ñî ñòîðîíû ñîñóäèñòûõ õèðóðãîâ.
Íàâåðíîå, ïðàâèëüíåå ãîâîðèòü î "òðîôè÷åñêèõ ÿçâàõ ãîëåíè" êàê ñáîðíîé ãðóïïå, êîòîðàÿ ìîæåò âûçûâàòüñÿ ðàçëè÷íûìè ôàêòîðàìè, è ÷àñòî - â ñî÷åòàíèè: ÕÂÍ, ñàõàðíûé äèàáåò, àðòåðèàëüíàÿ íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòü, ëþáîé îòå÷íûé ñèíäðîì.

 èäåàëå ëå÷åíèåì äîëæíà çàíèìàòüñÿ êîìàíäà ñïåöèàëèñòîâ - òåðàïåâò, ýíäîêðèíîëîã, ñïåöèàëèñò ïî ëå÷åíèþ ðàí (çà ðóáåæîì ýòî îáû÷íî ñðåäíåå ñïåöèàëüíîå îáðàçîâàíèå - podiatrist èëè tissue viability nurse (ïîÿâèëèñü â Âåëèêîáðèòàíèè ïðèìåðíî ñ 2001 ãîäà).

 Ðîññèè ÷àñòî ïðèõîäèòñÿ âñå äåëàòü ñàìîìó . Íî ïðè ìàññèâíûõ îòåêàõ ïðåäïîëîæèòåëüíî âñëåäñòâèå ñåðäå÷íîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè ÿ îáúÿñíÿþ ïàöèåíòó, ÷òî "Âàì íàäî êîíñóëüòèðîâàòüñÿ ñ êàðäèîëîãîì è îïòèìèçèðîâàòü ëå÷åíèå ñåðäå÷íîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè, ò.ê. ïîêà åñòü òàêèå ìàññèâíûå îòåêè, øàíñû íà çàæèâëåíèå íå î÷åíü âåëèêè".

Èñõîäÿ èç ìíîãîôàêòîðíîñòè ïðîèñõîæäåíèÿ òàêèõ ÿçâ, ìîæíî âûÿâèòü òå ôàêòîðû, êîòîðûå íà ïåðâîì ìåñòå ó äàííîãî ïàöèåíòà (íàïðèìåð, ÕÂÍ è ñàõàðíûé äèàáåò). Âàæíî íå ïðîïóñòèòü ñîïóòñòâóþùóþ àðòåðèàëüíóþ íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòü (ïàëüïàöèÿ àðòåðèé ñòîïû (íî äèàãíîñòè÷åñêóþ öåííîñòü èìååò íàëè÷èå ïóëüñà, íî íå îòñóòñòâèå), äîïïëåð, äóïëåêñ).

Îñíîâíûå êîìïîíåíòû ëå÷åíèÿ:
1. Ïðîìûâàíèå ðàíû íåòîêñè÷íûì äëÿ ãðàíóëÿöèîííîé òêàíè ðàñòâîðîì (ìèðàìèñòèí, õëîðãåêñèäèí, íî äîñòàòî÷íî è ôèçðàñòâîðà - ïîä äîñòàòî÷íûì äàâëåíèåì (÷åðåç èãëó, íàäåòóþ íà øïðèö). Åñëè åñòü îòäåëÿåìûé ñòðóï - î÷åíü íåæíîå (áåñêðîâíîå è áåç áîëè) åãî óäàëåíèå.
2. Íàëîæåíèå àòðàâìàòè÷íîé ïîâÿçêè, íå ïîâðåæäàþùóþ ðàíåâóþ ïîâåðõíîñòü â îòëè÷èå îò ìàðëè (Atrauman, Inadine è ò.ï.). Ïðè îáèëüíîì îòäåëÿåìîì âòîðè÷íàÿ ïîâÿçêà (êîòîðàÿ ïîâåðõ ýòîãî ìàòåðèàëà) äîëæíà îáëàäàòü âûñîêîé âïèòûâàþùåé ñïîñîáíîñòüþ: íàïðèìåð, ñïåöèàëüíûå ïîäóøå÷êè Zetuvit. Ìîæåò ïîòðåáîâàòüñÿ ñìåíà âòîðè÷íîé ïîâÿçêè â ïåðâûå äíè äî 3-4 ðàç â ñóòêè. Íî ìàöåðàöèè îêðóæàþùåé êîæè áûòü íå äîëæíî - èíà÷å áóäåò íå çàæèâëåíèå, à ðàñøèðåíèå ÿçâû.
Åñòü è áîëåå "ìóäðûå" ñîâðåìåííûå ïåðåâÿçî÷íûå ìàòåðèàëû (ïîëèóðåòàíîâàÿ ïåíà, ãèäðîêîëëîèäû, ãèäðîãåëè, àëüãèàòû, ãèäðîôèëüíîå âîëîêíî è äð.), íî îíè èìåþò áîëüøå ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèé è òðåáóþò îïûòà ó ìåäïåðñîíàëà.
Ìàçåâûå ïîâÿçêè îäíîçíà÷íî óõóäøàþò çàæèâëåíèå ïðè îáèëüíîì îòäåëÿåìîì.
3. Àíòèáèîòèêè ïðè ìåñòíûõ ïðèçíàêàõ ðàíåâîé èíôåêöèè (ïî Ãàëåíó). ×àñòî âñòðå÷àåòñÿ ðåçèñòåíòíàÿ ôëîðà (â ò.÷., ãîñïèòàëüíàÿ) - ïîýòîìó ïîñåâ, ñì. http://forums.rusmedserv.com/forumdisplay.php?f=177 .
4. Ïðè ÿâíîé ÕÂÍ - ýëàñòè÷íîå áèíòîâàíèå ïîâåðõ ïîâÿçêè (ýôôåêòèâíîñòü ïðè ëå÷åíèè òðîôè÷åñêèõ ÿçâ, íàñêîëüêî ÿ ïîíèìàþ, ÿâëÿåòñÿ îáùåïðèçíàííîé), íî îíî íåïåðåíîñèìî ïðè íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè ãëóáîêèõ âåí (à êàðäèîãåííûå îòåêè - ýòî âåäü, ïî ñóòè, íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòü ãëóáîêèõ âåí )
5. Åñòü íåáîëüøèå ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûå èññëåäîâàíèÿ ïî ïðèìåíåíèþ äåòðàëåêñà è ïåíòîêñèôèëëèíà ïðè ëå÷åíèè âåíîçíûõ ÿçâ ñ ýôôåêòîì, íî, íàñêîëüêî ÿ ïîíèìàþ, îíè íåäîñòàòî÷íî óáåäèòåëüíû (êîëëåãè, ïîïðàâüòå ìåíÿ, åñëè ÷òî).
6. Óñòðàíåíèå îòåêîâ äðóãîãî ïðîèñõîæäåíèÿ (êàðäèîãåííûå, ãèïîàëüáóìèíåìè÷åñêèå) - ñîîòâåòñòâóþùèìè ìåòîäàìè.
7. Êîìïåíñàöèÿ ñàõàðíîãî äèàáåòà (åñëè åñòü).
8. Ïðè ýêçåìå èëè ìàöåðàöèè âîêðóã ÿçâû - êðåìû ñ ãëþêîêîðòèêîèäàìè (äî 2-3 ðàç â äåíü) èëè ïàñòà Ëàññàðà.
9. Èñêëþ÷èòü òðàâìàòèçàöèþ ýòîé çîíû îáóâüþ.

Ïðè ïðèìåíåíèè âñåõ ýòèõ êîìïîíåíòîâ ëå÷åíèÿ (íó, ó êàæäîãî ïàöèåíòà ïðèìåíÿåòñÿ ëèøü íåîáõîäèìàÿ ÷àñòü) çàæèâëåíèå ïðîèñõîäèò ïðèìåðíî ó 80% áîëüíûõ. Íî òðåáóåò ïîðÿäêà 2-3 ìåñÿöåâ âèçèòîâ ñ èíòåðâàëîì 1-2 íåäåëè.

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
michmed îäîáðèë(à): ëå÷åíèåì äîëæíà çàíèìàòüñÿ êîìàíäà ñïåöèàëèñòîâ
Gallen îäîáðèë(à): èñ÷åðïûâàþùå
Iluhin îäîáðèë(à): Èñõîäÿ èç ìíîãîôàêòîðíîñòè ïðîèñõîæäåíèÿ òàêèõ ÿçâ, ìîæíî âûÿâèòü òå ôàêòîðû, êîòîðûå íà ïåðâîì ìåñòå ó äàííîãî ïàöèåíòà
nastassia îäîáðèë(à):
Valeriy îäîáðèë(à):
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 25.10.2009, 20:46
michmed michmed âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 22.12.2006
Ãîðîä: Òîìñê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 882
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 13
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 43 ðàç(à) çà 42 ñîîáùåíèé
michmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
"...ëå÷åíèåì äîëæíà çàíèìàòüñÿ êîìàíäà ñïåöèàëèñòîâ", â ìíîãîïðîôèëüíîì ñòàöèîíàðå. Òàêèõ òîâàðèùåé:
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Baculevson
ïàöèåíòû óïóùåííûå òåðàïåâòàìè ñ çàñòîåì â ÁÊÊ è ÌÊÊ: îðòîñòàòè÷åñêîå ïîëîæåíèå, óäóøüå, âûðàæåííûå îòåêè, àðòåðèàëüíàÿ ãèïåðòåíçèÿ ñàõàðíûé äèàáåò-äåêîìïåíñàöèÿ.
Èìõî, âñå äðóãèå âàðèàíòû íå ïðèåìëåìû.
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò o_udovichenko
Åñòü íåáîëüøèå ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûå èññëåäîâàíèÿ ïî ïðèìåíåíèþ äåòðàëåêñà è ïåíòîêñèôèëëèíà ïðè ëå÷åíèè âåíîçíûõ ÿçâ ñ ýôôåêòîì
Åñòü èññëåäîâàíèÿ, ïîäòâåðæäàþùèå ýôôåêòèâíîñòü ïåíòîêñèôèëëèíà â çàæèâëåíèè âåíîçíûõ ÿçâ.
ÍÅÒ èññëåäîâàíèé, ïîäòâåðæäàþùèõ ýôôåêòèâíîñòü äåòðàëåêñà â çàæèâëåíèè ëþáûõ ÿçâ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 25.10.2009, 21:39
Àâàòàð äëÿ Iluhin
Iluhin Iluhin âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 24.03.2006
Ãîðîä: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 5,878
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 9
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,327 ðàç(à) çà 1,195 ñîîáùåíèé
Iluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò michmed Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Åñòü èññëåäîâàíèÿ, ïîäòâåðæäàþùèå ýôôåêòèâíîñòü ïåíòîêñèôèëëèíà â çàæèâëåíèè âåíîçíûõ ÿçâ.
ÍÅÒ èññëåäîâàíèé, ïîäòâåðæäàþùèõ ýôôåêòèâíîñòü äåòðàëåêñà â çàæèâëåíèè ëþáûõ ÿçâ.
Íå ìîãëè áû Âû ïðîêîììåíòèðîâàòü òåêñò èç Åâðîïåéñêîãî ñîãëàñèòåëüíîãî äîêóìåíòà ïî äèàãíîñòèêå è ëå÷åíèþ õðîíè÷åñêèõ çàáîëåâàíèé âåí, êàñàþùèéñÿ ìåäèêàìåíòîçíîãî ñîïðîâîæäåíèÿ òðîôè÷åñêèõ âåíîçíûõ ÿçâ:

Management of Chronic Venous Disorders of the Lower Limbs
Guidelines According to Scientific Evidence

J INTERNATIONAL ANGIOLOGY Vol. 27, 2008 Reprinted from VOLUME 26 . 2007

Öèòàòà:
Pharmacological treatment of leg ulcers
Healing of venous leg ulcers (stage C6) has been shown to be accelerated in double-blind studies using “micronised purified flavonoid fraction”(MPFF). (187, 411, 444 ) This was confirmed in 2005 by a meta-analysis of 5 trials using MPFF as an adjunct to standard treatment in 723 patients of stage C6 of the CEAP classification. (445 )
Among VADs, the use of horse chestnut seed extract or of hydroxyrutosides failed to demon¬strate superiority over compression in advanced chronic venous insufficiency (258, 446 ) or in prevent¬ing venous ulcer recurrence. (447)
Several trials have suggested that pen-toxifylline may improve venous ulcer healing rates although the magnitude of the effect appears to be small and its role in patient management is unclear. (6, 451, 452)
Ïåðåâîä:
Öèòàòà:
Ëåêàðñòâåííàÿ òåðàïèÿ òðîôè÷åñêèõ ÿçâ
 äâîéíûõ-ñëåïûõ èññëåäîâàíèÿõ ÌÔÎÔ ïðîäåìîíñòðèðîâàíî óñêîðåííîå çàæèâëåíèå âåíîçíûõ ÿçâ íà íîãàõ (ñòàäèÿ C6).187, 411, 444 Ýòè äàííûå áûëè ïîäòâåðæäåíû â 2005 ã. ìåòà-àíàëèçîì ïÿòè èññëåäîâàíèé ïî ïðèìåíåíèþ ÌÔÎÔ â êà÷åñòâå äîïîëíåíèÿ ê ñòàíäàðòíîé òåðàïèè ó 723 ïàöèåíòîâ íà ñòàäèè C6 ïî êëàññèôèêàöèè CEAP.445
 èññëåäîâàíèÿõ ïî ïðèìåíåíèþ ýêñòðàêòà êîíñêîãî êàøòàíà èëè ãèäðîêñèðóòîçèäîâ íå óäàëîñü ïîêàçàòü èõ ïðåâîñõîäñòâî íàä êîìïðåññèîííîé òåðàïèåé ïðè õðîíè÷åñêîé âåíîçíîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè ïîçäíåé ñòàäèè 258, 446 èëè â ïëàíå ïðîôèëàêòèêè ðåöèäèâèðîâàíèÿ âåíîçíûõ ÿçâ.447
Íåñêîëüêî èññëåäîâàíèé äàþò îñíîâàíèÿ ïðåäïîëàãàòü óëó÷øåíèå ïðîöåññîâ çàæèâëåíèÿ ÿçâ ïðè ëå÷åíèè ïåíòîêñèôèëëèíîì, õîòÿ ýòîò ýôôåêò íå ñëèøêîì âåëèê è çíà÷åíèå ýòîãî ïðåïàðàòà äëÿ ëå÷åíèÿ ïàöèåíòîâ íåÿñíî.6, 451, 452
Ññûëêè ïî ôëåáîòðîïàì ïðè ÿçâàõ ïî òåêñòó:
187. Glinski W, Chodynicka B, Roszkiewicz J, al. e. The beneficial augmentative effect of micronized purified flavonoid fraction (MPFF) on the healing of leg ulcers: an open, multicentre, controlled randomised study. Phlebology 1999;14:151-7.
411. Guilhou JJ, Dereure O, Marzin L, Ouvry P, Zuccarelli F, Debure C, et al. Efficacy of Daflon 500 mg in venous leg ulcer healing: a double-blind, randomized, controlled versus placebo trial in 107 patients. Angiology 1997;48:77-85.
444. Roztocil K, Stvrtinova V, Strejcek J. Efficacy of a 6-month treatment with Daflon 500 mg in patients with venous leg ulcers associated with chronic venous insufficiency. Int Angiol 2003;22:24-31.
445. Coleridge-Smith P, Lok C, Ramelet AA. Venous leg ulcer: a meta-analysis of adjunctive therapy with micronized purified flavonoid fraction. Eur J Vasc Endovasc Surg 2005;30:198-208.

Îòäåëüíî â ðàáîòå îáñóæäàþòñÿ èññëåäîâàíèÿ ïî äåéñòâèþ ïåíòîêñèôèëëèíà.
ß ðàçäåëÿþ Âàø ñêåïñèñ ïî âîçìîæíîñòÿì ñèñòåìíîé òåðàïèè ÿçâ, íî ïðåäëîæèë áû äðóãóþ ôîðìóëèðîâêó:
èìåþòñÿ äàííûå î ïîëüçå ïðèìåíåíèÿ ïðè òðîôè÷åñêèõ ÿçâàõ êàê ïåíòîêñèôèëëèíà, òàê è ôëåáîòðîïíûõ ñðåäñòâ. Èìåþùèåñÿ äàííûå îãðàíè÷åíû. Óêàçàííûå ñðåäñòâà ìîãóò ïðèìåíÿòüñÿ â ëå÷åíèè òðîôè÷åñêèõ âåíîçíûõ ÿçâ â êà÷åñòâå âñïîìîãàòåëüíûõ ñðåäñòâ ïðè îòñóòñòâèè ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèé è íåïåðåíîñèìîñòè.
Êàê-òî òàê, íàâåðíîå?
__________________
Èëþõèí Åâãåíèé Àðêàäüåâè÷
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 25.10.2009, 22:31
michmed michmed âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 22.12.2006
Ãîðîä: Òîìñê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 882
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 13
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 43 ðàç(à) çà 42 ñîîáùåíèé
michmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåmichmed ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Åâãåíèé Àðêàäüåâè÷
Íå ìîãëè áû Âû ïðîêîììåíòèðîâàòü òåêñò èç Åâðîïåéñêîãî ñîãëàñèòåëüíîãî äîêóìåíòà ïî äèàãíîñòèêå è ëå÷åíèþ õðîíè÷åñêèõ çàáîëåâàíèé âåí, êàñàþùèéñÿ ìåäèêàìåíòîçíîãî ñîïðîâîæäåíèÿ òðîôè÷åñêèõ âåíîçíûõ ÿçâ:
ß ïîïðîáóþ, êàê ñìîãó.
Ïðåäïîëàãàÿ ÷òî
Öèòàòà:
Healing of venous leg ulcers (stage C6) has been shown to be accelerated in double-blind studies using “micronised purified flavonoid fraction”(MPFF).
àâòîðû ññûëàþòñÿ íà [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ](PDF) 2005 ãîäà.

Ñâîé âûâîä ÿ äåëàë íà îñíîâàíèè çàêëþ÷åíèÿ ñèñòåìàòè÷åñêîãî îáçîðà 2007 ãîäà.
Âîò åãî êîîðäèíàòû. Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, ññûëêó íå ìîãó íàéòè. Íàâåðíîå, ýòîò àáñòðàêò ñîõðàíèëñÿ ó ìåíÿ, êîãäà áûë äîñòóï ê êàêîé-òî èç áàç.

Öèòàòà:
EBM Reviews - Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews Martinez, MJ. Bonfill, X. Moreno, RM. Vargas, E. Capella, D. Phlebotonics for venous insufficiency. [Systematic Review] Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1, 2007.
AN: 00075320-100000000-02160
Âûâîäû:
Öèòàòà:
There is not enough evidence to globally support the efficacy of phlebotonics for chronic venous insufficiency. There is a suggestion of some efficacy of phlebotonics on oedema but this is of uncertain clinical relevance. Due to the limitations of current evidence, there is a need for further randomised, controlled clinical trials with greater attention paid to methodological quality.
Áåçóñëîâíî, ñîãëàøóñü ñ Âàìè, ÷òî ìîÿ ôîðìóëèðîâêà "ÍÅÒ èññëåäîâàíèé, ïîäòâåðæäàþùèõ ýôôåêòèâíîñòü äåòðàëåêñà â çàæèâëåíèè ëþáûõ ÿçâ." íå êîððåêòíà.
Èññëåäîâàíèÿ åñòü.
È ñ ôîðìóëèðîâêîé ïðåäëîæåííîé ñîãëàøóñü, åñëè ê "ïðè îòñóòñòâèè ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèé è íåïåðåíîñèìîñòè." äîáàâèòü:
íàëè÷èå ËÈ×ÍÛÕ ñâîáîäíûõ ñðåäñòâ, êîëè÷åñòâî ïðèíèìàåìûõ ïðåïàðàòîâ åùå íå áîëåå 4-õ.
Ñ óâàæåíèåì.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 25.10.2009, 23:33
Àâàòàð äëÿ Iluhin
Iluhin Iluhin âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 24.03.2006
Ãîðîä: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 5,878
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 9
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,327 ðàç(à) çà 1,195 ñîîáùåíèé
Iluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
ß ïîëíîñòüþ óäîâëåòâîðåí è ñîãëàñåí ñ äîïîëíåíèÿìè, ñïàñèáî.
__________________
Èëþõèí Åâãåíèé Àðêàäüåâè÷
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 26.10.2009, 09:15
Àâàòàð äëÿ o_udovichenko
o_udovichenko o_udovichenko âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 25.05.2007
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,052
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 118 ðàç(à) çà 101 ñîîáùåíèé
o_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåo_udovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Õî÷ó âíåñòè ïîïðàâêó â ñâîé ïîñò (êîëëåãè ðàçúÿñíèëè, ñïàñèáî):

Íåïåðåíîñèìîñòü ýëàñòè÷íîé êîìïðåññèè ñâÿçàíà íå ñ íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòüþ ãëóáîêèõ âåí, íî äåéñòâèòåëüíî âñòðå÷àåòñÿ ó íåáîëüøîé ÷àñòè ïàöèåíòîâ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 26.10.2009, 23:47
Skirr Skirr âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 20.11.2008
Ãîðîä: Ïèòåð
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,789
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 4
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 464 ðàç(à) çà 416 ñîîáùåíèé
Skirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSkirr ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò o_udovichenko Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Íåïåðåíîñèìîñòü ýëàñòè÷íîé êîìïðåññèè ñâÿçàíà íå ñ íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòüþ ãëóáîêèõ âåí, íî äåéñòâèòåëüíî âñòðå÷àåòñÿ ó íåáîëüøîé ÷àñòè ïàöèåíòîâ.
Âîò ÷òî ïèøóò ïðîèçâîäèòåëè ýëàñòè÷íîãî òðèêîòàæà î ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèÿõ:
Öèòàòà:
Ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèÿ: èíäèâèäóàëüíàÿ íåïåðåíîñèìîñòü ñ êîìïîíåíòàìè ñûðüÿ èçäåëèÿ, äåðìàòèòû ðàçëè÷íîé ýòèîëîãèè, ýêçåìû (â ïåðâóþ î÷åðåäü ìîêíóùèå), ðîæèñòûå âîñïàëåíèÿ (â îñòðîé ñòàäèè), òÿæåëûå ôîðìû ñåðäå÷íî-ñîñóäèñòîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè, õðîíè÷åñêàÿ àðòåðèàëüíàÿ íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòü (íèæå 80 ìì.ðò.ñò. â áåðöîâûõ àðòåðèÿõ),ãíîéíîå âîñïàëåíèå ñòîï ñ èçúÿâëåíèÿìè ó áîëüíûõ ñàõàðíûì äèàáåòîì.
- òî åñòü ïðàêòè÷åñêè òî, ÷òî îáñóæäàëîñü â äðóãèõ ïðè÷èíàõ âîçíèêíîâåíèÿ ÿçâ.

ß óæå ïûòàëñÿ îáñóæäàòü íà ýòîì ôîðóìå íåýëàñòè÷íóþ êîìïðåññèþ - à èìåííî öèíê-æåëàòèíîâûå ïîâÿçêè Óííà.

Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, íå ñìîã ïðåäîñòàâèòü ïî ïðîñüáå Âëàäèñëàâà Âàëåðèåâè÷à ïå÷àòíûõ ìàòåðèàëîâ ïî äàííîé òåìå - æóðíàë "Ôëåáîëèìôîëîãèÿ", ïî-ìîåìó, çà 2001 ãîä, "êàíóë â Ëåòó" ïðè ïåðååçäå.

Ïðèìåðíî - ðåêîìåíäàöèè êàê [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
Öèòàòà:
Ñîâðåìåííûå ïðèíöèïû ëå÷åíèÿ õðîíè÷åñêîé âåíîçíîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè
À.È. Êèðèåíêî, Ð.À. Ãðèãîðÿí, È.À. Çîëîòóõèí


[Èçîáðàæåíèÿ äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì]
Èëè [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] - ìîæåò, â òåìó.
Öèòàòà:
ÂÅÍÎÇÍÛÅ ßÇÂÛ È ÊÎÌÏÐÅÑÑÈÎÍÍÀß ÒÅÐÀÏÈß
Jean-Pierre Gobin, MD
ÖÅËÜ:
ïðåäñòàâëåíèå ðåêîìåíäàöèé ìåæäóíàðîäíîãî êîíñåíñóñà ïî êîìïðåññèîííîé òåðàïèè (Ïàðèæ 2002)

... ëèòåðàòóðå íåò ÿñíûõ äàííûõ î òîì, ÷òî åñòü ðàçíèöà ïðè ïðèìåíåíèè 4õ ñëîéíîãî áàíäàæà, äðóãèõ êîìïðåññèîííûõ ñèñòåì è ïîâÿçêè Óííà....
Çàìå÷ó, ÷òî ìíå ïðè ðàáîòå íà ïðè¸ìå â ïîëèêëèíèêå îáñëóæèâàíèåì íàñåëåíèÿ 40òûñ.÷åë íå÷àñòî ïðèõîäèòñÿ íàçíà÷àòü íåýëàñòè÷íóþ êîìïðåññèþ - îò 5 äî 10 ïîâÿçîê Óííà â ãîä. Çà 13 ëåò ðàáîòû - íå áîëåå 5 ñëó÷àåâ äîñðî÷íîãî ñíÿòèÿ ïîâÿçîê èç-çà ðàçíûõ ïðè÷èí (áîëè, ïîÿâëåíèå îáèëüíîãî îòäåëÿåìîãî ñ çàïàõîì è ïð.)

Íè â êîåì ñëó÷àå íå íàñòàèâàþ è íå îòðèöàþ âûøåïåðå÷èñëåííûõ ìåòîäîâ, íî êàê âàðèàíò äîïîëíÿþùèé...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #9  
Ñòàðûé 17.11.2009, 11:49
Àâàòàð äëÿ drsasha
drsasha drsasha âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.11.2009
Ãîðîä: Êèåâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 36
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 10 ðàç(à) çà 10 ñîîáùåíèé
drsasha ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê ïîëîæèòåëüíî õàðàêòåðèçóåòñÿ íà ôîðóìå
Ñî âñåì âûøåóêàçàííûì ñîãëàñåí, â èäåàëå ëå÷åíèå äîëæíî ïðîâîäèòñÿ êîìïëåêñíî ñîâìåñòíî ñ òåðàïåâòîì, ýíäîêðèíîëîã è õèðóðãîì. Íà ìîé âçãëÿä, äàííûé êëèíè÷åñêèé ñëó÷àé î÷åíü ïîõîæ íà Ñèíäðîì Ìàðòîðåëëà (ãèïåðòîíè÷åñêèå ÿçâû).

Graves JW, Morris JC, Sheps SG. Martorell's hypertensive leg ulcer: case report and concise review of the literature. J Hum Hypertens. 2001 Apr;15(4):279-83.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #10  
Ñòàðûé 18.11.2009, 00:08
Àâàòàð äëÿ Iluhin
Iluhin Iluhin âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 24.03.2006
Ãîðîä: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 5,878
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 9
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,327 ðàç(à) çà 1,195 ñîîáùåíèé
Iluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåIluhin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò drsasha Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Ñî âñåì âûøåóêàçàííûì ñîãëàñåí, â èäåàëå ëå÷åíèå äîëæíî ïðîâîäèòñÿ êîìïëåêñíî ñîâìåñòíî ñ òåðàïåâòîì, ýíäîêðèíîëîã è õèðóðãîì. Íà ìîé âçãëÿä, äàííûé êëèíè÷åñêèé ñëó÷àé î÷åíü ïîõîæ íà Ñèíäðîì Ìàðòîðåëëà (ãèïåðòîíè÷åñêèå ÿçâû).

Graves JW, Morris JC, Sheps SG. Martorell's hypertensive leg ulcer: case report and concise review of the literature. J Hum Hypertens. 2001 Apr;15(4):279-83.
Âû ïðî êàêîé êëèíè÷åñêèé ñëó÷àé?
Òóò ðàçãîâîðû, êàê ìíå êàçàëîñü, äîâîëüíî îáùèå...
Ëè÷íî ÿ íåñêîëüêî ðàç âñòðå÷àë ïàöèåíòîâ, ó êîòîðûõ ÿçâó, â êîíå÷íîì èòîãå, òðàêòîâàë êàê ãèïåðòîíè÷åñêóþ (Ìîðòîðåëëà). Åñòü âåñüìà ëþáîïûòíûå íàáëþäåíèÿ áîëãàðñêèõ êîëëåã (Âèêòîð Êíÿæåâ) ïî ýòîé ðåäêîé ïàòîëîãèè, îíè îáñóæäàëèñü íà ôîðóìå Àññîöèàöèè ôëåáîëîãîâ Ðîññèè (ññûëêà ó ìåíÿ â ïðîôèëå). Áîëåå òîãî, íàøè Ìîñêîâñêèå êîëëåãè ïðèìåíèëè ïðåäëîæåííûé Êíÿæåâûì ìåòîä ëå÷åíèÿ ñ õîðîøèì ðåçóëüòàòîì.
__________________
Èëþõèí Åâãåíèé Àðêàäüåâè÷
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #11  
Ñòàðûé 18.11.2009, 11:20
Àâàòàð äëÿ drsasha
drsasha drsasha âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.11.2009
Ãîðîä: Êèåâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 36
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 10 ðàç(à) çà 10 ñîîáùåíèé
drsasha ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê ïîëîæèòåëüíî õàðàêòåðèçóåòñÿ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Iluhin Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Âû ïðî êàêîé êëèíè÷åñêèé ñëó÷àé?
Íó îøèáñÿ ÿ, íå îäèí, à íåñêîëüêî êëèíè÷åñêèõ ñëó÷àåâ...

Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Baculevson Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Íåñêîëüêî ðàç ñòàëêèâàëñÿ ñ òàêèìè êëèíè÷åñêèìè ñëó÷àÿìè...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
Îòâåò



Âàøè ïðàâà â ðàçäåëå
Âû íå ìîæåòå ñîçäàâàòü òåìû
Âû íå ìîæåòå îòâå÷àòü íà ñîîáùåíèÿ
Âû íå ìîæåòå ïðèêðåïëÿòü ôàéëû
Âû íå ìîæåòå ðåäàêòèðîâàòü ñîîáùåíèÿ

BB êîäû Âêë.
Ñìàéëû Âêë.
[IMG] êîä Âêë.
HTML êîä Âûêë.



×àñîâîé ïîÿñ GMT +3, âðåìÿ: 14:33.




Ðàáîòàåò íà vBulletin® âåðñèÿ 3.
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.