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Äîêàçàòåëüíàÿ ìåäèöèíà Ðàçäåë ïðåäíàçíà÷åí äëÿ ïðîôåññèîíàëüíîãî îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé è ñòóäåíòîâ-ìåäèêîâ ïî âîïðîñàì ìåòîäîëîãèè ÅÂÌ. Êîíñóëüòèðîâàíèå ïàöèåíòîâ â ýòîì ðàçäåëå íå ïðîâîäèòñÿ.

Çàêðûòàÿ òåìà
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 07.04.2014, 10:56
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Ñåðôåð
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 07.04.2014
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 5
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Íàñêîëüêî äîêàçàíà ïîëüçà ëå÷åíèÿ ãåïàòèòà Ñ?

Äîáðûé äåíü!

Ïîìîãèòå, ïîæàëóéñòà, ðàçîáðàòüñÿ âîò ñ êàêèì âîïðîñîì. Åñòü òàêîå çàáîëåâàíèå - ãåïàòèò Ñ. È åñòü ïðèìåíÿåìûå â ðàçâèòûõ ñòðàíàõ ñõåìû ïðîòèâîâèðóñíîé òåðàïèè ýòîãî çàáîëåâàíèÿ (ñ èíòåðôåðîíîì/ïåãèíòåðôåðîíîì, ðèáàâèðèíîì, èíãèáèòîðàìè è ò.ä.). Ëå÷åíèå íåäåøåâîå, íåðåäêî ñâÿçàíî ñ ñåðüåçíûìè ïîáî÷íûìè ýôôåêòàìè.

Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû, êàê ïîíÿë, ëå÷åíèþ íåäîñòàåò äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ïîëüçû. Ïîýòîìó, íåêîòîðûå çàïàäíûå ýêñïåðòû âûñêàçûâàþòñÿ ïðîòèâ íàçíà÷åíèÿ òàêîãî ëå÷åíèÿ:

"Ýôôåêòèâíîñòü ëå÷åíèÿ íå áûëà äîêàçàíà îòíîñèòåëüíî ïðåäîòâðàùåíèÿ êëèíè÷åñêè çíà÷èìîãî çàáîëåâàíèÿ, ëå÷åíèå äîðîãîå è âûçûâàåò ñóùåñòâåííóþ çàáîëåâàåìîñòü (âêëþ÷àÿ ñìåðòü). Ýòî íåïîäõîäÿùåå êëèíè÷åñêîå ðåøåíèå - ïðîïèñûâàòü òîêñè÷íóþ òåðàïèþ (îñîáåííî äîðîãóþ) êîòîðàÿ íèêîãäà íå ïîêàçûâàëà êëèíè÷åñêèõ ïðåèìóùåñòâ â êà÷åñòâåííî âûïîëíåííûõ ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûõ èñïûòàíèÿõ." ([Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ], êòî íå ÷èòàåò ïî àíãëèéñêè, ïåðåâîä - [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ])

Òàêæå, èçâåñòíûå çàïàäíûå ãåïàòîëîãè ïðèçíàþò ([Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]), ÷òî òåðàïèè ãåïàòèòà Ñ íåäîñòàåò äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ïîëüçû:

"the frequently reported association between SVR and improved clinical outcome from cohort studies neither validates SVR as a surrogate endpoint nor confirms that antiviral therapy has clinical benefits. This requires RCTs to indicate that interferon therapy positively affects SVR as well as clinical outcome"

"÷àñòî ñîîáùàåìàÿ ñâÿçü ìåæäó ÓÂÎ è óëó÷øåíèåì êëèíè÷åñêèõ èñõîäîâ èç êîãîðòíûõ èññëåäîâàíèé íå ïîäòâåðæäàåò ÓÂÎ êàê ñóððîãàòíóþ êîíå÷íóþ òî÷êó, è íå ïîäòâåðæäàåò, ÷òî ïðîòèâîâèðóñíàÿ òåðàïèÿ èìååò êëèíè÷åñêèå ïðåèìóùåñòâà. Òðåáóþòñÿ ÐÊÈ, ÷òîáû ïîêàçàòü, ÷òî èíòåðôåðîíîòåðàïèÿ ïîçèòèâíî âëèÿåò êàê íà ÓÂÎ, òàê è íà êëèíè÷åñêèå èñõîäû."

"definite evidence for the clinical efficacy of interferon therapy was never established and SVR was never formally validated. The use of SVR as surrogate outcome measure thus remains with some uncertainty. "

"ÿâíûå äîêàçàòåëüñòâà êëèíè÷åñêîé ýôôåêòèâíîñòè èíòåðôåðîíîòåðàïèè íèêîãäà íå áûëè óñòàíîâëåíû è êðèòåðèé ÓÂÎ íèêîãäà íå áûë ôîðìàëüíî ïðîâåðåí. Ïîýòîìó, îñòàåòñÿ íåêîòîðàÿ ñòåïåíü íåóâåðåííîñòè ïðè èñïîëüçîâàíèè ÓÂÎ äëÿ èçìåðåíèÿ ñóððîãàòíîãî ðåçóëüòàòà."

"To conclude, we are aware that definite proof for the surrogacy of SVR and clinical benefit of interferon-based antiviral therapy is lacking."

" çàêëþ÷åíèå, ìû ïîíèìàåì, ÷òî îïðåäåëåííûõ äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ñóððîãàòíîñòè ÓÂÎ è êëèíè÷åñêèõ ïðåèìóùåñòâ îñíîâàííîé íà èíòåðôåðîíå ïðîòèâîâèðóñíîé òåðàïèè íåäîñòàåò."

Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû, ìíîãèì áîëüíûì ïðîïèñûâàþò ïðîòèâîâèðóñíóþ òåðàïèþ - â òîì ÷èñëå, â çàïàäíûõ ñòðàíàõ.  îáùåì, ïîëó÷àåòñÿ, ÷òî ýòà òåðàïèÿ, íó, âèäèìî, íå "ôóôëîìèöèí" ("ôóôëîìèöèí" - êàê ïîíèìàþ, ýòî òî, ÷òî âîîáùå íå èìååò äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ïîëüçû) - íî êàê "êëèíè÷åñêèå èñïûòàíèÿ". Èäóùèé ëå÷èòü ýòî äåëî, â êàêîé-òî ñòåïåíè, ÿâëÿåòñÿ "ïîäîïûòíûì êðîëèêîì" - âåäü ïîëüçà òåðàïèè äëÿ çäîðîâüÿ íå áûëà äîêàçàíà â êà÷åñòâåííûõ ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûõ èñïûòàíèÿõ. Âåðíî?
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 09.04.2014, 03:12
Àâàòàð äëÿ easl
easl easl âíå ôîðóìà
Âðà÷-èíôåêöèîíèñò
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 05.02.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 18,433
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 5,208 ðàç(à) çà 4,959 ñîîáùåíèé
easl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Íå âåðíî.
Áåç êëèíè÷åñêèõ èñïûòàíèé òðåáóåìîãî êà÷åñòâà ðåãèñòðàöèÿ ëåêàðñòâåííûõ ïðåïàðàòîâ íå ìîæåò áûòü ïî îïðåäåëåíèþ íè â ÑØÀ(FDA), íè â Eâðîïå(EMA).
__________________
Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Þñèô Àëõàçîâ.
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 09.04.2014, 07:45
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Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 07.04.2014
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 5
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Êàê Âû ñ÷èòàåòå, ÷òî èìåííî íåâåðíî?

Õîòåëîñü áû ðàçîáðàòüñÿ â âîïðîñå ñ ïîçèöèé íàó÷íîé ìåòîäîëîãèè äîêàçàòåëüíîé ìåäèöèíû, à íå ñ ïîçèöèé "äîâåðèÿ ðåãóëÿòîðó" FDA.  òîì ÷èñëå ïîòîìó, ÷òî, íàïðèìåð, â Ðîññèè ðåãóëÿòîð äîïóñòèë ïðåïàðàò "àðáèäîë" êàê ýôôåêòèâíûé, à ìíîãèå ãðàìîòíûå âðà÷è ñ÷èòàþò, ÷òî ýôôåêòèâíîñòü åãî íå äîêàçàíà â êà÷åñòâåííûõ ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûõ èñïûòàíèÿõ. Ò.å., ìíåíèå ðåãóëÿòîðà íå âñåãäà îçíà÷àåò, ÷òî ñ ïîçèöèé íàó÷íîé ìåòîäîëîãèè ýôôåêòèâíîñòü ïðåïàðàòà êà÷åñòâåííî äîêàçàíà.

Ïîýòîìó âîçíèêàåò âîïðîñ - ïðîâîäèëèñü ëè êà÷åñòâåííûå ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûå èñïûòàíèÿ, â êîòîðûõ äîêàçàíà ïîëüçà òåðàïèè ãåïàòèòà Ñ â ïëàíå ïðîäëåíèÿ æèçíè ïàöèåíòà? Âû ìîæåòå ïðèâåñòè ññûëêè íà òàêèå èññëåäîâàíèÿ?

Êàê ïîíÿë, âîïðîñ íå òàêîé ïðîñòîé, êàê íåðåäêî êàæåòñÿ íà ïåðâûé âçãëÿä. Àâòîð ïåðâîé öèòèðóåìîé ñòàòüè (R.Koretz) - èçâåñòíûé àìåðèêàíñêèé ýêñïåðò â îáëàñòè äîêàçàòåëüíîé ìåäèöèíû, âíåñøèé âêëàä â îòêðûòèå âèðóñà ãåïàòèòà Ñ. Àâòîðû âòîðîé ñòàòüè - èçâåñòíûå çàïàäíûå ãåïàòîëîãè M.Manns, H.Wedemeyer è äð. H.Wedemeyer íåêîòîðîå âðåìÿ áûë ãåíåðàëüíûì ñåêðåòàðåì EASL.
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 10.04.2014, 03:31
Àâàòàð äëÿ easl
easl easl âíå ôîðóìà
Âðà÷-èíôåêöèîíèñò
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 05.02.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 18,433
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 5,208 ðàç(à) çà 4,959 ñîîáùåíèé
easl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Íå íàäî âûäåðãèâàòü îòäåëüíûå ôðàçû èç êîíòåêñòà.  ñòàòüå ðå÷ü èäåò íå îá îòñóòñòâèè ýôôåêòèâíîñòè òåðàïèè, áàçèðóþùåéñÿ íà èíòåðôåðîíàõ.
Òåîðåòè÷åñêèìè èçûñêàíèÿìè ìû íå áóäåì çàíèìàòüñÿ.
Ñ Ìàííñîì è Âåäåìåéåðîì ÿ î÷íî îáùàëñÿ â÷åðà äíåì, íå äàâèòå èìåíàìè àâòîðèòåòîâ.
 ÷åì âàø êîíêðåòíûé êëèíè÷åñêèé âîïðîñ?
__________________
Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Þñèô Àëõàçîâ.
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 10.04.2014, 10:14
Serg676 Serg676 âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Ñåðôåð
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 07.04.2014
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 5
Serg676 *
> ñòàòüå ðå÷ü èäåò íå îá îòñóòñòâèè ýôôåêòèâíîñòè òåðàïèè, áàçèðóþùåéñÿ íà èíòåðôåðîíàõ.

Êàê ïîíèìàþ, ðå÷ü èäåò î íåäîñòàòî÷íîé äîêàçàííîñòè ýôôåêòèâíîñòè òåðàïèè. Ò.å. ïðèìåðíî êàê åñëè ïðåïàðàò íàõîäèòñÿ, ñêàæåì, â òðåòüåé ôàçå êëèíè÷åñêèõ èñïûòàíèé. Íåêîððåêòíî ñêàçàòü, ÷òî "äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ýôôåêòèâíîñòè ó òàêîãî ïðåïàðàòà íåò âîîáùå", ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû - äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ýôôåêòèâíîñòè òàêîìó ïðåïàðàòó íåäîñòàåò.

Êàê ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ýòî äîâîëüíî ñåðüåçíûé âîïðîñ - íàñêîëüêî äîêàçàíà ïîëüçà òåðàïèè, ñ ïîçèöèè íàó÷íîé ìåòîäîëîãèè - ÷òîáû âðà÷è è ïàöèåíòû ðåàëüíî çíàëè è áûëè óâåðåíû îòíîñèòåëüíî òîãî, íàñêîëüêî äîêàçàíà ýôôåêòèâíîñòü ïðåïàðàòîâ. Îñîáåííî, åñëè ýòè ïðåïàðàòû íåäåøåâî ïàöèåíòàì îáõîäÿòñÿ è èìåþò ñåðüåçíûå ïîáî÷íûå ýôôåêòû. Ê òîìó æå, åñëè àâòîðèòåòíûå âðà÷è ïðèçíàþò, ÷òî äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ïîëüçû òåðàïèè íåäîñòàåò.

Ïîýòîìó è ïîïðîñèë ññûëêè íà ïîäòâåðæäàþùèå èññëåäîâàíèÿ. Íî åñëè Âû íåãîòîâû îáñóæäàòü ýòîò âîïðîñ ïî ñóùåñòâó â ñèëó òåõ èëè èíûõ ïðè÷èí, íå ìîæåòå ïðèâåñòè ññûëêè íà òàêèå èññëåäîâàíèÿ - Âàøå ïðàâî íå îòâå÷àòü, êîíå÷íî. Äóìàþ, ýòî ëèøíèé ðàç áóäåò ïîäòâåðæäàòü, ÷òî òóò íå âñå òàê ïðîñòî.
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 10.04.2014, 15:08
Àâàòàð äëÿ easl
easl easl âíå ôîðóìà
Âðà÷-èíôåêöèîíèñò
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 05.02.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 18,433
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 5,208 ðàç(à) çà 4,959 ñîîáùåíèé
easl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Òóò âñå ïðîñòî. Ïðåïàðàò íå ìîæåò áûòü çàðåãèñòðèðîâàí áåç ïîëíîãî ïàêåòà äîêóìåíòîâ, âêëþ÷àþùåãî ðåçóëüòàòû âñåõ ôàç êëèíè÷åñêèõ èñïûòàíèé.
 ñòàòüå ðå÷ü èäåò î òîì, ÷òî óñòîé÷èâûé âèðóñîëîãè÷åñêèé îòâåò îòðàæàåò òîëüêî âèðóñîëîãè÷åñêèé îòâåò, à íå âåñü êîìïëåêñ ïðîáëåì áîëåçíè ïå÷åíè - ðåäóêöèÿ ôèáðîçà, óâåëè÷åíèå ïðîäîëæèòåëüíîñòè æèçíè, óìåíüøåíèå ñìåðòíîñòè, óìåíüøåíèå ÷àñòîòû ðàçâèòèÿ êàðöèíîìû ïå÷åíè è ò.ï. ó áîëüíûõ ñ öèððîçàìè ïå÷åíè â ïåðâóþ î÷åðåäü.
Êðîìå òîãî, åñòü åùå âîïðîñû áåçîïàñíîñòè è ïåðåíîñèìîñòè òåðàïèè, ðàçâèòèÿ ëåêàðñòâåííîé óñòîé÷èâîñòè ...
Íî ýôôåêòèâíîñòü ïðîòèâîâèðóñíîé òåðàïèè çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûõ ïðåïàðàòîâ èìååò äîêàçàòåëüíóþ áàçó, ñ êîòîðîé ìîæíî îçíàêîìèòüñÿ íà ñàéòå FDA.

Âû íå îòâåòèëè - â ÷åì âàø êîíêðåòíûé êëèíè÷åñêèé âîïðîñ.
Èëè ïðîñòî ïîãîâîðèòü? Òîãäà âàì íå ñþäà.
__________________
Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Þñèô Àëõàçîâ.
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 10.04.2014, 16:04
Serg676 Serg676 âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Ñåðôåð
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 07.04.2014
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 5
Serg676 *
> ñòàòüå ðå÷ü èäåò î òîì, ÷òî óñòîé÷èâûé âèðóñîëîãè÷åñêèé îòâåò îòðàæàåò òîëüêî âèðóñîëîãè÷åñêèé îòâåò, à íå âåñü êîìïëåêñ ïðîáëåì áîëåçíè ïå÷åíè

Äà, âåðíî. Ïðåïàðàòû FDA äîïóñêàåò ê ïðèìåíåíèþ íà îñíîâàíèè èõ ñïîñîáíîñòè âûçûâàòü óñòîé÷èâûé âèðóñîëîãè÷åñêèé îòâåò (ÓÂÎ). Îäíàêî, íåäîêàçàíî â êà÷åñòâåííûõ ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûõ èñïûòàíèÿõ, ÷òî ïàöèåíò ÷òî-ëèáî îò ÓÂÎ âûèãðûâàåò â ïëàíå ïðîäîëæèòåëüíîñòè æèçíè. Ò.å. íåò äîêàçàííîé â êà÷åñòâåííûõ ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûõ èñïûòàíèÿõ ñâÿçè ìåæäó ÓÂÎ è ðåàëüíûìè êëèíè÷åñêèìè èñõîäàìè (ñìåðòü, êàðöèíîìà ïå÷åíè è ò.ä.) Èíûìè ñëîâàìè, ÓÂÎ ÿâëÿåòñÿ íåïîäòâåðæäåííûì ñóððîãàòíûì ðåçóëüòàòîì. Ñëåäîâàòåëüíî, ïîä âîïðîñîì îêàçûâàåòñÿ è âñÿ ýôôåêòèâíîñòü òåðàïèè, ïîçâîëÿþùåé äîñòèãàòü ÓÂÎ. Ïîýòîìó, ìû âèäèì â ñòàòüÿõ òàêèå ôðàçû - ÷òî òåðàïèÿ "íèêîãäà íå ïîêàçûâàëà êëèíè÷åñêèõ ïðåèìóùåñòâ â êà÷åñòâåííî âûïîëíåííûõ ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûõ èñïûòàíèÿõ", "ìû ïîíèìàåì, ÷òî îïðåäåëåííûõ äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ñóððîãàòíîñòè ÓÂÎ è êëèíè÷åñêèõ ïðåèìóùåñòâ îñíîâàííîé íà èíòåðôåðîíå ïðîòèâîâèðóñíîé òåðàïèè íåäîñòàåò" è ò.ä.

Ñëåäîâàòåëüíî, òàê êàê èäóùèé íà òåðàïèþ ïîëó÷èò ëå÷åíèå, íå èìåþùåå äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ïîëüçû â ÐÊÈ (ïîëîæèòåëüíîãî âëèÿíèÿ íà êëèíè÷åñêèå èñõîäû) - êàê ïîíèìàþ, ñèòóàöèÿ ïîõîæà íà ó÷àñòèå â êëèíè÷åñêèõ èñïûòàíèÿõ. Èëè, ãîâîðÿ óïðîùåííûì ÿçûêîì - â êàêîé-òî ìåðå "ïîäîïûòíûé êðîëèê".

P.S. "êîíêðåòíûé êëèíè÷åñêèé âîïðîñ" - õî÷ó ðàçîáðàòüñÿ - íàñêîëüêî äîêàçàíà ïîëüçà ëå÷åíèÿ ãåïàòèòà Ñ.
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 10.04.2014, 18:53
Àâàòàð äëÿ easl
easl easl âíå ôîðóìà
Âðà÷-èíôåêöèîíèñò
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 05.02.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 18,433
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 5,208 ðàç(à) çà 4,959 ñîîáùåíèé
easl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Òîãäà âàì â ìåäóíèâåðñèòåò çà áàçèñíûì îáðàçîâàíèåì.
__________________
Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Þñèô Àëõàçîâ.
  #9  
Ñòàðûé 26.11.2014, 14:51
Serg676 Serg676 âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Ñåðôåð
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 07.04.2014
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 5
Serg676 *
Ïîëüçà ëå÷åíèÿ ãåïàòèòà Ñ êà÷åñòâåííî íå äîêàçàíà ñ ïîçèöèé äîêàçàòåëüíîé ìåäèöèíû?

Äîáðîãî âðåìåíè ñóòîê!

Ïîæàëóéñòà, ïîìîãèòå ðàçîáðàòüñÿ - âåðíî ïîíèìàþ, ÷òî îäîáðåííîé FDA è øèðîêî ïðèìåíÿåìîé (â òîì ÷èñëå, â ðàçâèòûõ ñòðàíàõ) òåðàïèè ãåïàòèòà Ñ (ñ èíòåðôåðîíîì/ïåãèíòåðôåðîíîì, ðèáàâèðèíîì, èíãèáèòîðàìè) íåäîñòàåò äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ïîëüçû ñ ïîçèöèé äîêàçàòåëüíîé ìåäèöèíû?

Èçâåñòíûå ïðîôåññîðà ïèøóò:

Öèòàòà:
"The wide acceptance of hepatitis C treatment has occurred in the presence of two gaps in the evidence base. The first is the absence of randomized trials comparing treatment with no treatment, which would show that treatment actually does provide a benefit. The second, as alluded to in the 1997 NIH statement [4], is the lack of any validation of the surrogate end points (either the markers of inflammation or the SVR)."
([Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ])

"Øèðîêîå ïðèíÿòèå ëå÷åíèÿ ãåïàòèòà Ñ ïðîèçîøëî â ïðèñóòñòâèè äâóõ ïðîáåëîâ â äîêàçàòåëüíîé áàçå. Ïåðâûé - ýòî îòñóòñòâèå ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûõ èñïûòàíèé, ñðàâíèâàþùèõ ãðóïïû ëå÷åíûõ è íåëå÷åíûõ, êîòîðûå ïîêàçàëè áû, ÷òî ëå÷åíèå ðåàëüíî ïðèíîñèò ïîëüçó. Âòîðîé, êàê ññûëàåòñÿ çàÿâëåíèå NIH 1997 ãîäà, - îòñóòñòâèå ïðîâåðêè äîñòîâåðíîñòè ñóððîãàòíûõ êîíå÷íûõ òî÷åê (ìàðêåðîâ âîñïàëåíèÿ è óñòîé÷èâîãî âèðóñîëîãè÷åñêîãî îòâåòà ÓÂÎ)."

Öèòàòà:
"definite evidence for the clinical efficacy of interferon therapy was never established and SVR was never formally validated. The use of SVR as surrogate outcome measure thus remains with some uncertainty. "
"ÿâíûå äîêàçàòåëüñòâà êëèíè÷åñêîé ýôôåêòèâíîñòè èíòåðôåðîíîòåðàïèè íèêîãäà íå áûëè óñòàíîâëåíû è êðèòåðèé ÓÂÎ íèêîãäà íå áûë ôîðìàëüíî ïðîâåðåí. Ïîýòîìó, îñòàåòñÿ íåêîòîðàÿ ñòåïåíü íåóâåðåííîñòè ïðè èñïîëüçîâàíèè ÓÂÎ äëÿ èçìåðåíèÿ ñóððîãàòíîãî ðåçóëüòàòà."

Öèòàòà:
"the frequently reported association between SVR and improved clinical outcome from cohort studies neither validates SVR as a surrogate endpoint nor confirms that antiviral therapy has clinical benefits. This requires RCTs to indicate that interferon therapy positively affects SVR as well as clinical outcome"
"÷àñòî ñîîáùàåìàÿ ñâÿçü ìåæäó ÓÂÎ è óëó÷øåíèåì êëèíè÷åñêèõ èñõîäîâ èç êîãîðòíûõ èññëåäîâàíèé íå ïîäòâåðæäàåò ÓÂÎ êàê ñóððîãàòíóþ êîíå÷íóþ òî÷êó, è íå ïîäòâåðæäàåò, ÷òî ïðîòèâîâèðóñíàÿ òåðàïèÿ èìååò êëèíè÷åñêèå ïðåèìóùåñòâà. Òðåáóþòñÿ ÐÊÈ, ÷òîáû ïîêàçàòü, ÷òî èíòåðôåðîíîòåðàïèÿ ïîçèòèâíî âëèÿåò êàê íà ÓÂÎ, òàê è íà êëèíè÷åñêèå èñõîäû."

Öèòàòà:
"To conclude, we are aware that definite proof for the surrogacy of SVR and clinical benefit of interferon-based antiviral therapy is lacking."
(ýòè öèòàòû èç [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ])

" çàêëþ÷åíèå, ìû ïîíèìàåì, ÷òî îïðåäåëåííûõ äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ñóððîãàòíîñòè ÓÂÎ è êëèíè÷åñêèõ ïðåèìóùåñòâ îñíîâàííîé íà èíòåðôåðîíå ïðîòèâîâèðóñíîé òåðàïèè íåäîñòàåò."

Öèòàòà:
"As of this time, treatment advocates are supporting treatment that has no level 1 (well designed and executed RCTs) evidence for improved clinical outcomes, but is costly and toxic (including occasional mortal)."
([Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ])

"Ïî ñîñòîÿíèþ íà äàííîå âðåìÿ, çàùèòíèêè ëå÷åíèÿ ïîääåðæèâàþò ëå÷åíèå, êîòîðîå íå èìååò äîêàçàòåëüñòâ óðîâíÿ 1 (õîðîøî ðàçðàáîòàííûå è âûïîëíåííûå ÐÊÈ) äëÿ óëó÷øåíèÿ êëèíè÷åñêèõ ðåçóëüòàòîâ, íî ÿâëÿåòñÿ äîðîãèì è òîêñè÷íûì (â òîì ÷èñëå, èíîãäà ñìåðòåëüíûì)."

Èíòåðåñåí òàêæå âîïðîñ "ýòè÷åñêîãî" ïëàíà. Åñëè ïîëó÷àåòñÿ òàê, ÷òî ïðîïèñûâàþòñÿ ïðåïàðàòû, îäîáðåííûå FDA, íî êîòîðûì íåäîñòàåò äîêàçàòåëüñòâ ïîëüçû ñ ïîçèöèé äîêàç.ìåäèöèíû - íóæíî ëè ïðåäóïðåæäàòü ïàöèåíòîâ îá ýòîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîé äîêàçàííîñòè ïîëüçû? Îñîáåííî, åñëè ýòè ïðåïàðàòû îáõîäÿòñÿ ïàöèåíòàì â ñóììû ïîðÿäêà 10-20 òûñ.äîëëàðîâ è âûøå (â Ðîññèè è ðÿäå äðóãèõ ïîñòñîâåòñêèõ ñòðàí) è íåñóò ñóùåñòâåííûé ðèñê ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ (â òîì ÷èñëå, èíâàëèäèçèðóþùèõ)? Ñèòóàöèÿ âåäü, ïîëó÷àåòñÿ, ïî ñóòè, ïîõîæà íà êëèíè÷åñêèå èñïûòàíèÿ, è åñëè ïàöèåíòà íå ïðîèíôîðìèðîâàòü - îí ñòàíîâèòñÿ îò÷àñòè "ïîäîïûòíûì êðîëèêîì", íå çíàÿ îá ýòîì?
  #10  
Ñòàðûé 28.11.2014, 16:26
Àâàòàð äëÿ easl
easl easl âíå ôîðóìà
Âðà÷-èíôåêöèîíèñò
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 05.02.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 18,433
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 5,208 ðàç(à) çà 4,959 ñîîáùåíèé
easl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåeasl ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Íå íóæíî âûäåðãèâàòü ôðàçû èç êîíòåêñòà.

Öèòàòà:
Conclusion
To conclude, we are aware that definite proof for the surrogacy of SVR and clinical benefit of interferon-based antiviral therapy is lacking.

Nevertheless, SVR has been repeatedly associated with improvements in health-related quality of life, hepatic inflammation and fibrosis, and portal pressure as well as with a reduced occurrence of solid clinical endpoints such as hepatocellular carcinoma, liver failure and death.

Collectively, this strongly argues that SVR is a patient-relevant endpoint and reasonably likely to predict clinical benefit [13].

Furthermore, there is no clear evidence to suggest a long-term harmful effect of 24–48 weeks of interferon-based therapy, by which we usually attempt to achieve this virological outcome measure in our patients. With future triple therapy, a treatment duration of 12 weeks might even be sufficient [79].

The increased mortality rate in a subgroup of patients who received long-term interferon maintenance therapy is not representative for short-term antiviral therapy with the potential to result in SVR.

Nevertheless, we do acknowledge that interferon-based therapy is accompanied by substantial side-effects, which was also highlighted again by the recent meta-analysis [6].

Thus, careful patient selection remains a necessity at this time, and better tolerated interferon-free treatment regimens with combinations of direct-acting antiviral agents are urgently required.

We oppose, however, that the results of the recent Cochrane meta-analysis, or more specifically the HALT-C study, should discourage physicians from treating their patients with chronic HCV infection in general.
Journal of Hepatology
Volume 60, Issue 1, Pages 191–196, January 2014
Is there sufficient evidence to recommend antiviral therapy in hepatitis C?

Adriaan J. van der Meeremail, Heiner Wedemeyer, Jordan J. Feld, Bettina E. Hansen, Michael P. Manns, S. Zeuzem, Harry L.A. Janssen
__________________
Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Þñèô Àëõàçîâ.
Çàêðûòàÿ òåìà


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