#16
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Ó íàñ â ãîðîäå ñòåíòèðóþòñÿ âñå ÎÊÑ - ïðàâäà, òîëüêî ïî âòîðíèêàì Åñëè ïðåòâîðÿò â æèçíü ïðèíÿòóþ "Ïðîãðàììó ëå÷åíèÿ ÎÊÑ", òî áóäåò ïîñòîÿííàÿ êðóãëîñóòî÷íàÿ ñëóæáà.
Åäèíñòâåííîå ïîêàçàíèå ê ýêñòðåííîé ÀÊØ - äèññåêöèÿ ïðè ñòåíòèðîâàíèè, ÷òî íà ìîåé ïàìÿòè â íàøåì îòäåëåíèè áûëî 1 ðàç. Íàøè êàðäèîõèðóðãè-"ÈÁÑîëîãè" áåç ïðîáëåì âêëèíÿò â ïëàí íà òåêóùóþ èëè ñëåäóþùóþ íåäåëþ êàêîãî-íèáóäü èøåìèêà, êîòîðîìó ïðåäñòîèò â äàëüíåéøåì, ñêàæåì, îíêîîïåðàöèÿ. Ýòî ÿ óæå òàê - â çàùèòó êîëëåã-êàðäèîõèðóðãîâ! |
#17
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to Drserg
...Ñòåíòèðîâàíèå ïðè ÎÊÑ (ïðè ëþáîì ïîðàæåíèè êîðîíàðíûõ àðòåðèé) âîïðîñ óæå äàâíî íå ñïîðíûé... Åñëè ìîæíî, ïðèâåäèòå, ïîæàëóéñòà, ðàáîòû äàâíî è îäíîçíà÷íî ðåøèâøèå îáñóæäàåìûé âîïðîñ (îñîáåííî ïðè ìóëüòèñîñóäèñòîì ïîðàæåíèè èëè ñòâîëå). È åùå, 10% ïîêðûòûõ ñòåíòîâ Âû ñòàâèòå â êàêèõ ñèòóàöèÿõ? |
#18
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"Ñïîêîéñòâèå, òîëüêî ñïîêîéñòâèå!"
Öèòàòà:
- íàäî áóäåò ðàíäîìèçèðîâàòü ïàöèåíòîâ ñî ñòâîëîì è îòñóòñòâèåì ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèé ê ÀÊØ â ãðóïïó ÀÊØ, ÒÁÊÀ èëè ìåäèêàìåíòîçíîãî ëå÷åíèÿ (òîëüêî â Ðîññèè è Ãîíäóðàñå òàêîå âîçìîæíî) - ýòî íåýòè÷íî (ñì. âûøå) - ïîðàæåíèå ñòâîëà - êðèòåðèé èñêëþ÷åíèÿ èç òàêòèêè ÒÁÊÀ èëè ìåäèêàìåíòîçíîãî ëå÷åíèÿ â ÐÊÈ ïðè íàëè÷èè ïîêàçàíèé (îòñóòñòâèè ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèé) äëÿ ÀÊØ.  íàøåì æå ñëó÷àå ÀÊØ ïàöèåíòó íå ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíî! 2. Îäíîçíà÷íîãî ðåøåíèÿ (guideline-guided) âîïðîñà î òàêòèêå ó êîíêðåòíîãî ïàöèåíòà íå ñóùåñòâóåò, ïîòîìó ÷òî: - åìó îäíîçíà÷íî ïîêàçàíà ÀÊØ ñ óðîâíåì äîêàçàòåëüíîñòè IÀ (ÎÈÌ, ïîðàæåíèå ñòâîëà è òÿæåëàÿ ñòåíîêàðäèÿ + îòñóòñòâóþò ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèÿ äëÿ ÀÊØ, íå â Ðîññèè ïàöèåíòà áûñòðî áåðóò íà ñòîë è îïåðèðóþò). - äåëàòü ÀÊØ îòêàçûâàþòñÿ. 3. Âîïðîñ: åñëè ÀÊØ â Ðîññèè ïî ðàçíûì ïðè÷èíàì íå áóäóò äåëàòü åùå â òå÷åíèå 3-6 ìåñÿöåâ, òî êàê ëå÷èòü ïàöèåíòà ýòè 3-6 ìåñ? 4. Åñòü ëè ìåñòî äëÿ ÒÁÊÀ? Îòâåò íå òàê óæ è îäíîçíà÷åí: åñëè ÿ ïðàâèëüíî ïîìíþ, ó ïàöèåíòà ïîðàæåíèå ñòâîëà (60-70%), îêêëþçèÿ äèñòàëüíîãî îòäåëà ÏÊÀ è êðèòè÷åñêèé ñòåíîç ÎÀ (Àëåêñàíäð, íåïëîõî áûëî áû äåòàëüíîå îïèñàíèå êîðîíàðîãðàôèè ñ êàðòèíêàìè è ôèëüì). Âîçìîæíî, æèòü åìó ìåøàåò (ñòåíîêàðäèÿ) èìåííî 90% ñòåíîç â ÎÀ è òîãäà BMS (DES íåëüçÿ, ïîòîìó ÷òî åñëè ñòåíò çàòðîìáèðóåòñÿ ñ ëåòàëüíûì èñõîäîì è ïðîêóðîð äîêàæåò, ÷òî ýòî ïðîèçîøëî èç-çà îòìåíà ïëàâèêñ+àñïèðèí ïåðåä ïëàíîâîé ÀÊØ, ëå÷àùèé âðà÷ ïðèñÿäåò) ïîçâîëèò "äîòÿíóòü" åìó äî ÀÊØ. Ìîæíî ëè îòêàç êàðäèîõèðóðãîâ äåëàòü ÀÊØ ðàññìàòðèâàòü â íàøåé ñòðàíå êàê ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèå äëÿ ÀÊØ? 5. Âîïðîñ î ïðåèìóùåñòâàõ ìåäèêàìåíòîçíîãî ëå÷åíèÿ âîîáùå íå ñòîèò, ïîòîìó COURAGE çäåñü íèêàêèì áîêîì íå öåïëÿåòñÿ. Âîò òàêàÿ ïåòðóøêà. |
#19
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Ïðåäëàãàþ îò òåîðèè ïåðåéòè ê ïðàêòèêå, ÷òîáû ñïîðèòü íåñêîëüêî ïðåäìåòíî, à íå àáñòðàêòíî...Alevgen âûëîæèòå, ïîæàëóéñòà, ÝÊÃ, Ýõî-ÊÃ, ÊÀà ýòîãî ïàöèåíòà ñîáëþäàÿ âñå ýòè÷åñêèå íþàíñû.
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#20
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Óâàæàåìûå êîëëåãè! Êîðîíàðîãðàììû ïîñòàðàþñü âûëîæèòü â áëèæàéøåå âðåìÿ, êîãäà ñìîãó ïåðåâåñòè èõ â ïðèåìëèìûé ïî îáúåìó ôîðìàò. Áóäó î÷åíü áëàãîäàðåí çà ñîâåòû ïî ýòîé ìàíèïóëÿöèè (ïðîãðàììà? êîäåê?).
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#21
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Óâàæàåìûå êîëëåãè, âûêëàäûâàþ îáåùàííóþ êîðîíàðîãðàììó è ÝÊà âî âðåìÿ ïðèñòóïà. Çàðàíåå ïðîøó èçâèíèòü çà êà÷åñòâî ôîòî è ðàçìåð âèäåîôàéëà, íî ìåíüøå óæàòü åãî íå ïîëó÷èëîñü (àíãèîãðàô ïèøåò èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî â vob-ôàéëû)
ÊÀÃ: [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] |
#22
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Alevgen, ñïàñèáî çà ÝÊÃ è ÊÀÃ. Ìíå ïîêàçàëîñü, ÷òî ó ïàöèåíòà ñòåíòèðîâàíà ÏÊÀ, åñëè ýòî òàê, êîãäà ýòî áûëî ñäåëàíî è ÷òî çà ñòåíò?
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#23
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Ïðàâàÿ êîðîíàðíàÿ ñòåíòèðîâàíà îêîëî 8 ëåò íàçàä. Êàêîé ñòîèò ñòåíò íåèçâåñòíî, ïîñêîëüêó íèêàêîé äîêóìåíòàöèè ïî ýòîìó ïîâîäó ó ïàöèåíòà, ê ñîæàëåíèþ íå ñîõðàíèëîñü.
Ïîñëå ñòåíòèðîâàíèÿ ñòåíîêàðäèÿ âîçîáíîâèëàñü ãäå-òî ÷åðåç ãîä. Ïðîâîäèëàñü êîíòðîëüíàÿ ÊÀÃ, ñòåíò áûë îêêëþçèðîâàí (?) âñëåäñòâèå ÷åãî ïðåäïðèíèìàëèñü áåçóñïåøíûå (?) ïîïûòêè ðåêàíàëèçàöèè, ïîñëå ÷åãî áîëüíîìó áûëî ïðåäëîæåíî ÀÊØ, îò êîòîðîãî îí îòêàçàëñÿ. Äàëåå ñòåíîêàðäèÿ â ïðåäåëàõ 2-3ÔÊ äî ïîñëåäíåãî ìåñÿöà, êîãäà ïðèñòóïû çíà÷èòåëüíî ó÷àñòèëèñü è ñ îäíèì èç çàòÿæíûõ àíãèíîçíûõ ýïèçîäîâ îí è ïîïàë ê íàì. Áîëüøèíñòâî äàííûõ àíàìíåçà ñ âîïðîñàìè ò.ê. ïàöèåíò íå èìååò íè îäíîé âûïèñêè íà ðóêàõ è ñâîèì çäîðîâüåì, ìÿãêî ãîâîðÿ, íå èíòåðåñóåòñÿ. Íèêàêîé âíÿòíîé òåðàïèè, ñîîòâåòñòâåííî, äîìà íå ïîëó÷àë... |
#24
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Öèòàòà:
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#25
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Öèòàòà:
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]Acute and late outcomes of unprotected left main stenting in comparison with surgical revascularization. J Am Coll Cardiol. 2008 Feb 5;51(5):538-45. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]Results of percutaneous coronary intervention of the unprotected left main coronary artery in 143 patients and comparison of 30-day mortality to results of coronary artery bypass grafting.Am J Cardiol. 2008 Jan 1;101(1):75-81. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]Comparison of percutaneous versus surgical revascularization of severe unprotected left main coronary stenosis in matched patients.Am J Cardiol. 2008 Jan 15;101(2):169-72. Epub 2007 Dec 3. 2. ×òî êàñàåòñÿ ãàéäîâ, òî 9.2.3. Unstable Angina/Non–ST-Segment Elevation MI (NSTEMI) Class I 1. CABG should be performed for patients with unstable angina/NSTEMI with significant left main coronary artery stenosis. (Level of Evidence: A) Èñòî÷íèê: ACC/AHA 2004 Guideline Update for Coronary Artery Bypass Graft Surgery 5.3. Patients With UA/NSTEMI Class IIa 3. Use of PCI is reasonable in patients with UA/NSTEMI with significant left main CAD (greater than 50% diameter stenosis) who are candidates for revascularization but are not eligible for CABG. (Level of Evidence: B) Èñòî÷íèê: ACC/AHA/SCAI 2005 Guideline Update for Percutaneous Coronary Intervention Åâðîïåéñêèé ãàéä ïî ÒÁÊÀ íå ïîçâîëÿåò êîïèðîâàòü òåêñò, íî òàì òîæå íà ñòðàíèöå 5 ïîä óðîâíåì äîñòîâåðíîñòè IIb (C) îòìå÷åíî, ÷òî ÒÁÊÀ ïîêàçàíà ïðè íåçàùèùåííîì ñòâîëå òîëüêî ïðè îòñóòñòâèè äðóãèõ âîçìîæíîñòåé ðåâàñêóëÿðèçàöèè. Ñ 2004 è 2005 ãã. ìíîãî âîäû óòåêëî, íî 4.1. Recommendations for Revascularization With PCI and CABG in Patients With UA/NSTEMI 4.1.1. Recommendations for PCI CLASS III In the absence of high-risk features associated with UA/NSTEMI, PCI is not recommended for patients with UA/NSTEMI who have singlevessel or multivessel CAD and no trial of medical therapy, or who have 1 or more of the following: e. Significant left main CAD and candidacy for CABG. (Level of Evidence: B) Èñòî÷íèê: ACC/AHA 2007 Guidelines for the Management of Patients With Unstable Angina/Non–ST-Elevation Myocardial Infarction 3. Íî âîïðîñ óâàæàåìîãî dmblok áûë íå î ãàéäàõ, à êàñàëñÿ ïîòåíöèàëüíîé âîçìîæíîñòè ïðîâåäåíèÿ ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûõ èññëåäîâàíèé ïî òàêòèêå ÀÊØ vs ÒÁÊÀ ó ñòàáèëüíûõ ïàöèåíòîâ ñ çíà÷èìûì ïîðàæåíèåì LMA ïðè óñëîâèè, ÷òî ôîðìàëüíî ïðîâåäåíèå ÀÊØ íå ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíî. Ìíå êàæåòüñÿ, ÷òî èññëåäîâàíèå ÒÁÊÀ vs ÀÊØ â òàêîé ñèòóàöèè íå ýòè÷íî è íå áóäåò îäîáðåíî ýòè÷åñêèì êîìèòåòîì.  äîñòóïíîé ìíå ëèòåðàòóðå ÒÁÊÀ ïðè íåçàùèùåííîì ñòâîëå äåëàëè ïðè ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèÿõ äëÿ ÀÊØ èëè â îñòðîé ñèòóàöèè (êàðäèîãåííûé øîê è ò.ä.). Èëè ïëîõî èñêàë èëè íåò äîñòóïà ê full text, áóäó ïðèçíàòåëåí çà ïîìîùü ñ ïåðâîèñòî÷íèêàìè. |
#26
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Öèòàòà:
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#27
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Äóìàåòñÿ, ïðè òàêîé àíàòîìèè PCI íå ïîêàçàíà...ñòâîë...ìàëûé äèàìåòð áèôóðêàöèè ÎÂ-ÇÁÂ...âûðàæåííî èçâèòàÿ ÏÌÆÂ...ïðàâóþ âðÿä ëè ïîëó÷èòñÿ îòêðûòü...øóíòû, îäíîçíà÷íî! è ëó÷øå íå æäàòü öåëûé ìåñÿö
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#28
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Öèòàòà:
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] Âîçìîæíî Âàøå ìíåíèå ïîñëå èõ ïðî÷òåíèÿ èçìåíèòñÿ. Ìíå êàæåòñÿ äîñòàòî÷íî âàæíûì ÿâëÿåòñÿ âûâîä ñîòðóäíèêîâ Êëèâëåíäñêîé Êëèíèêè èç ïðåâåäåííîãî âûøå íåðàíäîìèçèðîâàííîãî èñïûòàíèÿ: "In conclusion, patients who underwent percutaneous revascularization of severe LMCA stenosis appeared to have 3-year survival equivalent to those who underwent CABG.... These findings support the need for randomized trials with adequate follow-up to compare the 2 approaches." È ñîòâåòñòâåííî äèçàéí èññëåäîâàíèÿ PRECOMBAT (PREmier of Randomized COMparison of Bypass Surgery Versus AngioplasTy Using Sirolimus-Eluting Stent in Patients With Left Main Coronary Artery Disease) [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] |
#29
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[quote=dmblok;
Âîçìîæíî Âàøå ìíåíèå ïîñëå èõ ïðî÷òåíèÿ èçìåíèòñÿ. [/quote] Ñïàñèáî çà full text! Ìíåíèå î ñòåíòèðîâàíèè LMA íå èçìåíèëîñü. 1.  ðàáîòå [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ](Comparison of percutaneous versus surgical revascularization of severe unprotected left main coronary stenosis in matched patients.Am J Cardiol. 2008) âîîáùå íå áûëî ðàíäîìèçàöèè. Ýòî áûëî êîãîðòíîå íàáëþäåíèå (äàííûå ðåãèñòðà). Ðåøåíèå î âûáîðå ÒÁÊÀ èëè ÀÊØ ïðèíèìàëîñü í îñíîâàíèè "ñîïóòñòâóþùèõ çàáîëåâàíèé èëè ðåøåíèÿ âðà÷à/ïàöèåíòà". Ìîãó òîëüêî ïðåäïîëîæèòü, íî, íàâåðíîå, ñíà÷àëà î÷åíü âûáîðî÷íî ñòàâèòñÿ ñòåíò â LMA, à ïîòîì íàõîäÿò ïîäõîäÿùèõ ïàöèåíòîâ ñ ÀÊØ. Àâòîðû äåëàþò âûâîä î íåîáõîäèìîñòè ïðîâåäåíèÿ "ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûõ èññëåäîâàíèé ïî ñðàâíåíèþ 2 òàêòèê" 2.  ðàáîòå [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]Acute and late outcomes of unprotected left main stenting in comparison with surgical revascularization. J Am Coll Cardiol. 2008) ïàöèåíòîâ ðàíäîìèçèðîâàëè ïîñëå îáúåäåíåííîãî ðåøåíèÿ êàðäèîõèðóðãîâ è àíãèîãðàôèñòîâ. Ðàíäîìèçèðîâàëè ÷åñòíî, ñóäÿ ïî èñõîäíîé ñîïîñòàâèìîñòè ãðóïï. Áåðó ñâîè ñëîâà îáðàòíî, ïåðâîå ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííîå èññëåäîâàíèå ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ÒÁÊÀ vs ÀÊØ ïðè ïîðàæåíèè LMA ñóùåñòâóåò. 3.  PRECOMBAT íå îïèñàíà ïðîöåäóðà âûáîðà òàêòèêè. Ãîâîðèòü î ðóòèííîì (â ðåàëüíîé æèçíè) èñïîëüçîâàíèè ñòåíòèðîâàíèÿ LMA ïîêà ðàíî. Ñòàâèòü BMS íå î÷åíü ïðàâèëüíî èç-çà âûñîêîãî ïðîöåíòà ðåñòåíîçîâ.  ðàáîòå Buszman è ñîàâò. DES èìïëàíòèðîâàëè òîëüêî 18 (èç 52) ïàöèåíòàì. Íàáëþäàëè ïàöèåíòîâ 1 ãîä è ïîêàçàëè îòñóòñòâèå ïîçäíèõ òðîìáîçîâ (êðèâûå äîæèòèÿ ïðîäîëæèëè íà 3-4 ãîäà, íî ýòî óæå òðåòè÷íàÿ êîíå÷íàÿ òî÷êà). Íóæíû äëèòåëüíûå íàáëþäåíèÿ è ïîæèçíåííûé ïðèåì ïëàâèêñ+àñïèðèí. Íåëüçÿ èñêëþ÷èòü, ÷òî ÷åðåç 2-4 ãîäà DES áóäåò òðîìáèðîâàòüñÿ è íå îñòàâëÿòü ïàöèåíòó øàíñà íà âûæèâàíèå.  òîæå âðåìÿ, ðàáîòà Buszman äàåò ðåàëüíûé øàíñ ïàöèåíòàì, êîòîðûì ÀÊØ ïî ðàçíûì ïðè÷èíàì äåëàòü íåëüçÿ. Åñëè åñòü âûáîð ìåæäó ñòåíòèðîâàíèåì è ÀÊØ ïðè ïîðàæåíèè LMA, îò èìïëàíòàöèè ñòåíòà ñâîåìó ïàöèåíòó ÿ áû âîçäåðæàëñÿ. |
#30
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Âîò ýòî Âàøå ìíåíèå ÿ èìåë ââèäó ãîâîðÿ, ÷òî îíî ìîæåò èçìåíèòüñÿ...
Öèòàòà:
×òî êàñàåòñÿ ðóòèííîãî èñïîëüçîâàíèÿ, òî ÿ äóìàþ â óñëîâèÿõ ðåàëüíîãî ÎÊÑ, êîãäà áîëüíîé, âåñüìà âåðîÿòíî, íàõîäèòñÿ íà ìîùíîé äâîéíîé-òðîéíîé äåçàãðåãàíòíîé òåðàïèè, ñðîêè ðåâàñêóëÿðèçàöèè èìåþò î÷åíü áîëüøîå çíà÷åíèå è òä., ñòåíòèðîâàíèå ñòâîëà ËÊÀ (ïðè ïðî÷èõ ðàâíûõ óñëîâèÿõ) áîëåå âûãîäíàÿ òàêòèêà â ñðàâíåíèè ñ ÊØ óæå ñåé÷àñ, îñîáåííî äëÿ ÐÔ. Îôèöèàëüíûå ðåêîìåíäàöèè âñåãäà îòñòàþò îò ïðàêòèêè, îíè ëèøü ñóììèðóþò îïûò, êîòîðûé ïîêà íåáîëüøîé. Êîðîòêèé äèçàéí èññëåäîâàíèÿ SYNTAX (The SYNergy between percutaneous coronary intervention with TAXus and cardiac surgery), î êîòîðîì óïîìèíàë ä-ð rsp: Öèòàòà:
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