#61
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ßíóñ êèíàçà äà èëè íåò?
Äîáðûé äåíü! Ïðîøó ïîìî÷ü ðàçîáðàòüñÿ.
Ñäàþ â òðåòèé ðàç àíàëèç íà ìóòàöèþ ßíóñ Êèíàçû 2 (JAK2 ) Val617Phe Îäíà êëèíèêà âûäàëà ðåçóëüòàò îòðèöàòåëüíî, âòîðàÿ êëèíèêà ïîëîæèòåëüíî. Ïåðåñäàþ â îáåèõ êëèíèêàõ , ó êàæäîé êëèíèêè ïîâòîðÿåòñÿ ðåçóëüòàò - îäíà ïîëîæèòåëüíî, âòîðàÿ îòðèöàòåëüíî. È êàæäàÿ êëèíèêà íàñòàèâàåò íà ñâîåì ðåçóëüòàòå. ß ïåðåñäàþ â òðåòüåé. Ðåçóëüòàò ïèøóò òàêîé: Íåò ìóòàöèè -/-; -ãåòåðîçèãîòíàÿ ôîðìà ìóòàöèè +/-; -ãîìîçèãîòíàÿ ôîðìà +/+ Ïîæàëóéñòà, îáúÿñíèòå, ÷òî ýòî çíà÷èò? Åñòü ìóòàöèè â èòîãå èëè íåò? Äâå ïåðâûå êëèíèêè âûäàâàëè ïðîñòî ðåçóëüòàò + èëè -, îäíà äàëà %-êîëè÷åñòâåííîå ðàçâå ÷òî åùå. |
#62
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êàêîé ðåçóëüòàò áûë êîëè÷åñòâåííûé â öèôðàõ?
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#63
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òî 6, òî 9%
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#64
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òî åñòü ëàáîðàòîðèÿ ïèøåò 6 èëè 9% è çàêëþ÷åíèå - îòðèöàòåëüíî? À êàêîé êëèí. äèàãíîç äîêòîð õî÷åò ïîäòâåðäèòü èëè îïðîâåðãíóòü?
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#65
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íåò, îäíà êëèíèêà ïðîñòî ïèøåò îòðèöàòåëüíî, âòîðàÿ êëèíèêà ïèøåò ïîëîæèòåëüíàÿ 6%. è åñòü òðåòüÿ êëèíêà êîòîðàÿ ïèøåò " Íåò ìóòàöèè -/-; -ãåòåðîçèãîòíàÿ ôîðìà ìóòàöèè +/-; -ãîìîçèãîòíàÿ ôîðìà +/+". ß õî÷ó çíàòü, ÷òî ýòèì õîòåëà ñêàçàòü èìåííî ýòà (òðåòüÿ) êëèíèêà.
äîêòîð è äèàãíîç ýòî îòäåëüíî. ìíå ïðèíöèïèàëüíî ïîíÿòü ðåçóëüòàò ñàìîãî àíàëèçà. |
#66
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à åñëè â öåëîì ïðî äèàãíîç, òî ýññåíöèàëüíàÿ òðîìáîöèòåìèÿ
íî ìíå èìåííî ïðî òðåòüþ ëàáîðàòîðèþ èíòåðåñíî, ÷òî çíà÷àò ýòè + è- ó íèõ, îíè íàøëè ìóòàöèþ èëè íåò? |
#67
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òðåòüÿ ëàáîðàòîðèÿ ïî Âàøåé âûøåèçëîæ. èíôå ÍÅ âûäàëà ðåçóëüòàò, à òîëüêî íàïèñàëà èíòåðïðåòàöèþ â ïëþñàõ/ìèíóñàõ, íî ìîæåò Âû íå çàìåòèëè ðåçóëüòàò, ñêàí áëàíêà áåç ÔÈÎ ìîã áû ïîìî÷ü, à êàêàÿ æå ëàáà èç òðåõ äàëà ðåçóëüòàò 9%?
Ï.Ñ. íà ôîðóìå ïðèíÿòî âñå ïèñàòü â îäíîé òåìå èëè äàâàòü ññûëêè íà ïðåä., òåìû îáüåäèíåíû â ãåìàòîëîãèè.
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#68
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Íåò, ýòî âñå. Ò.å. íåò ìóòàöèè -/- - ýòî íå îòð? À ÷òî âîîáùå ìîãóò çíà÷èòü ýòè + è - ? Òàì åùå âûøå íà áëàíêå ñ ðàçíûìè ìóòàöèÿìè äðóãèìè (íî ÿ ñäàâàëà òîëüêî íà ýòó) íàïðîòèâ Ìóòàöèÿ ßíóñ Êèíàçû2 ñòîèò -/-.
9% ýòî ÃÍÖ è ÿ ñêëîííà âåðèòü èì, íî ìíå èíòåðåñíî è ïðèíöèïèàëüíî çíàòü, ÷òî ñêàçàëà òðåòüÿ. Íà ñàìîì äåëå, âñåì èíòåðåñíî, ïîòîìó ÷òî áûë ñïîð ìåæäó äâóìÿ ïåðâûìè êëèíèêàìè, êàæäûé ïîïðîñèë ðàäè âñå òàêè èíòåðåñà èì ñîîáùèòü ðåçóëüòàò òðåòüåé. |
#69
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Îé, ÿ ñåé÷àñ ïîäóìàëà, ÷òî ìîæåò âíèçó ýòî áûëî íå çàêëþ÷åíèå, à ðàñøèôðîâêà!!!
Òîãäà ïîëó÷àåò -/- íåò ìóòàöèè. È 2:1 íå â ïîëüçó ÃÍÖ!! |
#70
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 ñîâðåìåííîé ìåäèöèíå, åñëè äåëàåòñÿ äàííûé àíàëèç, ÄÎËÆÅÍ ñòîÿòü óðîâåíü ìóòàíòíîé íàõîäêè â %, åñëè èñïîëüçóþòñÿ ñòàðûå òåñò ñèñòåìû, ãäå èäåíòèôèêàöèÿ íà÷èíàåòñÿ ñ 10% è âûøå, òî åñòåñòâåííî ó Âàñ áóäåò ðåçóëüòàò îòðèöàòåëüíûé, ãäå ñòîèò ñèñòåìà, êîòîðàÿ ìîæåò ïîðåäåëèòü ñ òî÷íîñòüþ äî 1%, òî è ðåçóëüòàò áóäåò â öèôðàõ, à íå â äóðàöêèõ ïëþñàõ, êîòîðûå íèêîìó íè÷åãî íå ãîâîðÿò (è äàæå íåèçâåñòíî äåëàëñÿ àíàëèç èëè Âàì íàïèñàëè ðåçóëüòàò ñ ïîòîëêà). Åñëè äåëàòü àíàëèçû íå â øàðàøêàõ, à â ñåðòèô. ëàáîðàòîðèÿõ, òî íå íóæíî áóäåò ñäàâàòü äåñÿòîê ðàç, ÷òîá ïîòîì ñ÷èòàòü âåðîÿòíîñòü ïðàâèëüíîãî ðåçóëüòàòà. Åñëè 9 øàðàøåê ñêàçóò íåò, íî îäíà ëàáà, êîòîðàÿ äåëàåò êâàëèôèöèðîâàííî, ñêàæåò 6...9%, òî òàêîé ðåçóëüòàò è áóäåò ó âàñ íåñìîòðÿ íà îáøèé ñ÷åò 9:1
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#71
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Âñå òðè êëèíèêè íå øàðàøêè è ñåðòèôèöèðîâàíû.
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#72
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Íó òàê è çàäàéòå èì âîïðîñ: êåì è ÷åì îíè ñåðòèôèöèðîâàíû è ïî÷åìó èõ ðåçóëüòàò íå âûãëÿäèò êàê íèæåïðèâåäåííûé ñòàíäàðò âî âñåì ìèðå?
Specimen type: Peripheral blood Clinical indication: Thrombocytosis, rule out myeloproliferative neoplasm Qualitative result: JAK2 V617F mutation detected Quantitative result: 7% mutant alleles Interpretation: Positive The following mutation was detected: JAK2 c.1849G>T (p.V617F)
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#73
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Íå çíàþ,êàê âî âñåì ìèðå, íî âîò â Èçðàèëå òîæå íåãàòèâ/ïîçèòèâ, ò.å. äà/íåò, áåç öèôð êëèíèêà õàäàññà.
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#74
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Çíà÷èò â òîé êëèíèêå äîæå äàëåêè îò ìåä. ñòàíäàðòîâ, àíàëèçû äåëàëè íåäàâíî?
âîò òàêîé òåêñò ñâîáîäíî äîñòóïåí åùå ñ êîíöà 2013 ãîäà: Laboratory Practice Guidelines for Detecting and Reporting JAK2 and MPL Mutations in Myeloproliferative Neoplasms [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] îòòóäà: For qualitative JAK2 V617F testing, the report should clearly indicate a final analytic result (eg, JAK2 V617F mutation DETECTED or JAK2 V617F mutation NOT DETECTED)... If a quantitative cutoff is used to define a positive result, this value should be stated as part of the methodology summary, and a limit of sensitivity must also be included... the terms heterozygous and homozygous should generally be avoided in clinical reports.
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#75
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Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû, åñëè èñïîëüçîâàòü î÷åíü ÷óâñòâèòåëüíûé òåñò, òî îí ìîæåò áûòü è ëîæíîïîëîæèòåëüíûì - âñå òåñòû äàþò êàêîé-òî %, íî åñëè îí ìåíåå 2%, òî ñ÷èòàåòñÿ îòðèöàòåëüíûì, îïèñàíû êëèí. ñëó÷àè, êîãäà ó ëþäåé ñ òðîìáîöèòåìèåé óðîâåíü ßÊ-2 ïîñòîÿííî áûë â ïðåäåëàõ 3-5%
Comparison among the 12 laboratories performing quantitative JAK2 V617F assays was complicated by the various ways in which the laboratories reported their results. Most laboratories reported their results as a JAK2 V617 percentage of unmutated alleles. Two laboratories reported results as one of six categories (≥78%, 50% to 78%, …, <5%), and one laboratory reported results in three categories (homozygous, heterozygous, and low-level heterozygous). For the purposes of comparison, results were grouped as high (>50%), moderate (5% to 50%), low (2% to 5%), and negative (<2%). One laboratory had a higher rate of discordance than the others; it is possible that this laboratory was truly an outlier, although it is also possible that there were clerical errors in reporting the results to the study. When this laboratory was excluded, there was complete concordance for 29 specimens, 18 of which were in the high category, 9 were in the moderate category, and 2 were in the low category. There was less reproducibility between laboratories in the lower ranges, presumably because of greater variance of the method in the low range. No specimen was negative for all 12 laboratories, again presumably reflecting poorer reproducibility at the low end and possibly indicating high sensitivity (which could result in false-positive results).
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |