Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà
MedNavigator.ru - Ïîèñê è ïîäáîð ëå÷åíèÿ â Ðîññèè è çà ðóáåæîì

Âåðíóòüñÿ   Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà > Ôîðóìû âðà÷åáíûõ êîíñóëüòàöèé > Àíåñòåçèîëîãèÿ è ìåäèöèíà êðèòè÷åñêèõ ñîñòîÿíèé > Àíåñòåçèîëîãèÿ

Îòâåò
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 06.06.2005, 14:45
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr. Vadim
Dr. Vadim Dr. Vadim âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 06.04.2005
Ãîðîä: Åêàòåðèíáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,709
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 301 ðàç(à) çà 251 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ôèáðîîïòè÷åñêàÿ èíòóáàöèÿ

Êîëëåãè! Ïðåäëàãàþ ê îáñóæäåíèþ óçêóþ òåìó ôèáðîîïòè÷åñêîé èíòóáàöèè òðàõåè. Îñîáåííî ïðèçûâàþ ïðèíÿòü ó÷àñòèå òåõ, êòî ñàì âëàäååò ýòîé òåõíèêîé. Õî÷ó âûÿñíèòü îáùåñòâåííîå ìíåíèå ïî âîïðîñó: êàêîé ñïîñîá, ïóòü ô/î èíòóáàöèè òðàõåè âû ïðåäïî÷èòàåòå ïðè ïðî÷èõ ðàâíûõ óñëîâèÿõ - îðîòðàõåàëüíûé èëè íàçîòðàõåàëüíûé? ß ñåé÷àñ íå ðàññìàòðèâàþ ñëó÷àè ïîäîáíî òîìó, êîòîðûé ïðèâ¸ë Ïàïàäîêòîð â ñâîåé ïåðâîé çàäà÷êå(ñì. òîïèê). ß íàîáîðîò óñðåäíÿþ ñèòóàöèþ. Äîïóñòèì, âû âèäèòå íà ïðåäîïåðàöèîííîì îñìîòðå, ÷òî ñòàíäàðòíàÿ îðîòðàõåàëüíàÿ èíòóáàöèÿ ñ ëàðèíãîñêîïîì, ïîñëå èíäóêöèè è ðåëàêñàöèè ñêîðåå âñåãî íå ïîéä¸ò è ïðèíèìàåòå ðåøåíèå èíòóáèðîâàòü ñ ïîìîùüþ áðîíõîñêîïà. Ïàöèåíò îòêðûâàåò ðîò äîñòàòî÷íî äëÿ òîãî, ÷òîáû ââåñòè çàãóáíèê. ×òî âû âûáåðåòå - îðî- èëè íàçî-?
Çà ñåáÿ îòâå÷ó ñðàçó. ß ñòîðîííèê ô/î ÍÀÇÎòðàõåàëüíîé èíòóáàöèè. Ýòî áûñòðåå, òàê êàê èçáàâëÿåò îò íåîáõîäèìîñòè ïðîâîäèòü ËÐÀ ÄÏ (ëîêîðåãèîíàëüíóþ àíåñòåçèþ äûõàòåëüíûõ ïóòåé), ýòî óìåíüøàåò ðàñõîä ïðåïàðàòîâ (ÿ òîëüêî ñìà÷èâàþ âàòêó íà òîíêîé ñïèöå ðàñòâîðàìè 10% ëèäîêàèíà è 0,1 % ôåíèëýôðèíà è ââîæó ïîî÷åð¸äíî â êàæäûé íèæíèé íîñîâîé õîä, ÷åì äîáèâàþñü àäåêâàòíîé àíåñòåçèè è àíåìèçàöèè ñëèçèñòîé, ýòî ïðîùå òåõíè÷åñêè (èçãèá òðóáêè íå òàêîé êðóòîé ïîëó÷àåòñÿ, êàê ïðè îðîòðàõåàëüíîé) è ïðè ïðîáóæäåíèè ïàöèåíòà âûçûâàåò ìåíüøèé äèñêîìôîðò ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ îðîòðàõåàëüíîé òðóáêîé.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 06.06.2005, 15:09
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr. Makhotin
Dr. Makhotin Dr. Makhotin âíå ôîðóìà
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 11.10.2004
Ãîðîä: ã. Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 319
Dr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Óâàæàåìûé Dr. Vadim, âðîäå áû îáùåïðèçíàíî, ÷òî èíòóáàöèÿ ïîä êîíòðîëåì áðîíõîñêîïà ÿâëÿåòñÿ, ëèáî âûíóæäåííîé ìåðîé ïðè îïðåäåëåííûõ òðóäíîñòÿõ ñ èíòóáàöèåé îáû÷íûì ñïîñîáîì, ëèáî èñïîëüçóåòñÿ â îãîâîðåííûõ ïëàíîâûõ ñëó÷àÿõ, êàê íàïðèìåð ïðè îäíîëåãî÷íîé âåíòèëÿöèè äëÿ êîíòðîëÿ ïîëîæåíèÿ òðóáêè.  ïåðâîì ñëó÷àå ñèòóàöèÿ ïðåäñòàâëÿåòñÿ ýêñòðåííîé, æèçíåóãðîæàþùåé è íè î êàêîé íàçîòðàõåàëüíîé èíòóáàöèè ðå÷è èäòè íå ìîæåò (ñîãëàñèòåñü ïðîöåäóðà íåñêîëüêî ñëîæíåå). Êàê äóìàåòå?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 06.06.2005, 15:27
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr. Vadim
Dr. Vadim Dr. Vadim âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 06.04.2005
Ãîðîä: Åêàòåðèíáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,709
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 301 ðàç(à) çà 251 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Dr. Makhotin
Óâàæàåìûé Dr. Vadim, âðîäå áû îáùåïðèçíàíî, ÷òî èíòóáàöèÿ ïîä êîíòðîëåì áðîíõîñêîïà ÿâëÿåòñÿ, ëèáî âûíóæäåííîé ìåðîé ïðè îïðåäåëåííûõ òðóäíîñòÿõ ñ èíòóáàöèåé îáû÷íûì ñïîñîáîì, ëèáî èñïîëüçóåòñÿ â îãîâîðåííûõ ïëàíîâûõ ñëó÷àÿõ, êàê íàïðèìåð ïðè îäíîëåãî÷íîé âåíòèëÿöèè äëÿ êîíòðîëÿ ïîëîæåíèÿ òðóáêè.  ïåðâîì ñëó÷àå ñèòóàöèÿ ïðåäñòàâëÿåòñÿ ýêñòðåííîé, æèçíåóãðîæàþùåé è íè î êàêîé íàçîòðàõåàëüíîé èíòóáàöèè ðå÷è èäòè íå ìîæåò (ñîãëàñèòåñü ïðîöåäóðà íåñêîëüêî ñëîæíåå). Êàê äóìàåòå?
Íå ñîãëàøóñü. Íàçîòðàõåàëüíàÿ ìíå ïðåäñòàâëÿåòñÿ ëåã÷å.
Ô/î èíòóáàöèÿ ÿâëÿåòñÿ âûíóæäåííîé ìåðîé - ÿ ñ ýòîãî íà÷àë.  ïëàíîâûõ ñëó÷àÿõ - òîæå ñêàçàë. (  ýòîì è âîïðîñ - ïëàíîâî êàê? - ïëàíîâî îðî- èëè ïëàíîâî íàçî-?) Äëÿ îäíîë¸ãî÷íîé âåíòèëÿöèè ïðåäïî÷èòàþ double lumen tube (Âû ÿâíî íå óêàçàëè, êàêóþ òðóáêó èìåëè â âèäó), â ýòîì ñëó÷àå, ñàìî ñîáîé, áðîíõîñêîï íåîáõîäèì
Îáùåïðèçíàíî êåì? ß è âûÿñíÿþ.
ß ñïðàøèâàþ òîëüêî ïðî ïëàíîâûå ñëó÷àè, êîãäà çàðàíåå èçâåñòíî, ÷òî áóäåò ïðîèçâåäåíà ô/î èíòóáàöèÿ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 07.06.2005, 06:59
papadoctor papadoctor âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.03.2005
Ãîðîä: USA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,685
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
papadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Dr. Makhotin
Óâàæàåìûé Dr. Vadim, âðîäå áû îáùåïðèçíàíî, ÷òî èíòóáàöèÿ ïîä êîíòðîëåì áðîíõîñêîïà ÿâëÿåòñÿ, ëèáî âûíóæäåííîé ìåðîé ïðè îïðåäåëåííûõ òðóäíîñòÿõ ñ èíòóáàöèåé îáû÷íûì ñïîñîáîì, ëèáî èñïîëüçóåòñÿ â îãîâîðåííûõ ïëàíîâûõ ñëó÷àÿõ, êàê íàïðèìåð ïðè îäíîëåãî÷íîé âåíòèëÿöèè äëÿ êîíòðîëÿ ïîëîæåíèÿ òðóáêè.  ïåðâîì ñëó÷àå ñèòóàöèÿ ïðåäñòàâëÿåòñÿ ýêñòðåííîé, æèçíåóãðîæàþùåé è íè î êàêîé íàçîòðàõåàëüíîé èíòóáàöèè ðå÷è èäòè íå ìîæåò (ñîãëàñèòåñü ïðîöåäóðà íåñêîëüêî ñëîæíåå). Êàê äóìàåòå?
Ïî÷åìó ñðàçó âûíóæäåííîé? À êàê Âû êëèíêîâ ó÷èòå? Ïëàíîâî, íà áåççóáîé áàáóøêå ( äåäóøêå), òàê âåäü??
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 08.06.2005, 17:27
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr. Makhotin
Dr. Makhotin Dr. Makhotin âíå ôîðóìà
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 11.10.2004
Ãîðîä: ã. Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 319
Dr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò papadoctor
Ïî÷åìó ñðàçó âûíóæäåííîé? À êàê Âû êëèíêîâ ó÷èòå? Ïëàíîâî, íà áåççóáîé áàáóøêå ( äåäóøêå), òàê âåäü??
Ïîòîìó, ÷òî èñïîëüçîâàíèå îïòèêè öåëåñîîáðàçíî â ñëó÷àÿõ òðóäíîé èíòóáàöèè (difficult airways). À îáó÷åíèå èíòóáàöèè âñåãäà íàäî ïðîâîäèòü íà ïðîñòûõ "ïðèìåðàõ" ïàöèåíòîâ!
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 08.06.2005, 17:29
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr. Makhotin
Dr. Makhotin Dr. Makhotin âíå ôîðóìà
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 11.10.2004
Ãîðîä: ã. Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 319
Dr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
×òî êàñàåòñÿ "çàïðîãðàììèðîâàííîãî" èñïîëüçîâàíèÿ îïòèêè, ïóñòü ïðè ïëàíîâûõ îïåðàöèÿõ, çà÷åì æå èñïîëüçîâàòü íîñîâîé õîä? Êàêèå ïðåèìóùåñòâà? Èëè ó Âàñ òðàâìà (ïåðåëîì íèæíåé ÷åëþñòè, ïåðåëîì øåéíûõ ïîçâîíêîâ)?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 08.06.2005, 17:30
papadoctor papadoctor âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.03.2005
Ãîðîä: USA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,685
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
papadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Dr. Makhotin
Ïîòîìó, ÷òî èñïîëüçîâàíèå îïòèêè öåëåñîîáðàçíî â ñëó÷àÿõ òðóäíîé èíòóáàöèè (difficult airways). À îáó÷åíèå èíòóáàöèè âñåãäà íàäî ïðîâîäèòü íà ïðîñòûõ "ïðèìåðàõ" ïàöèåíòîâ!
U4ite li vu fibroopti4eskoi intubatsii??
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 08.06.2005, 17:36
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr. Makhotin
Dr. Makhotin Dr. Makhotin âíå ôîðóìà
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 11.10.2004
Ãîðîä: ã. Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 319
Dr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Dr. Vadim
Äëÿ îäíîë¸ãî÷íîé âåíòèëÿöèè ïðåäïî÷èòàþ double lumen tube (Âû ÿâíî íå óêàçàëè, êàêóþ òðóáêó èìåëè â âèäó), â ýòîì ñëó÷àå, ñàìî ñîáîé, áðîíõîñêîï íåîáõîäèì
Îáùåïðèçíàíî êåì?
Êîíòðîëü îïòèêîé ðåêîìåíäîâàí Åâðîïåéñêèì îáùåñòâîì àíåñòåçèîëîãèè, àíàëîãè÷íîå ìíåíèå ïðîçâó÷àëî â äîêëàäàõ íà ïîñëåäíåì ñúåçäå IARS.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #9  
Ñòàðûé 08.06.2005, 17:43
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr. Makhotin
Dr. Makhotin Dr. Makhotin âíå ôîðóìà
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 11.10.2004
Ãîðîä: ã. Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 319
Dr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò papadoctor
U4ite li vu fibroopti4eskoi intubatsii??
Íàñêîëüêî ÿ çíàþ, ôèáðîîïòè÷åñêàÿ èíòóáàöèÿ íå âõîäèò â ïðîãðàììó îáó÷åíèÿ îðäèíàòîðîâ.  äàëüíåéøåì, òå êòî ñòàëêèâàþòñÿ ñ ýòîé "ïðîáëåìîé", îñâàèâàþò ìåòîäèêó ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíî.
Âïðî÷åì, ÿ íå äóìàþ, ÷òî ìíîãèå àíåñòåçèîëîãè â Ðîññèè ñòàëêèâàþòñÿ ñ ïðîáëåìîé òðóäíîé èíòóáàöèè (íà ñàìîì äåëå âîçìîæíîé òîëüêî ñ ïîìîùüþ îïòèêè, à íå ðåøàåìîé ïóòåì ïðèãëàøåíèÿ áîëåå "îïûòíîãî" êîëëåãè). Âîò äëÿ ÑØÀ ñ ìíîæåñòâîì ïàöèåíòîâ ñ èçáûòî÷íîé ìàññîé òåëà - ýòà ïðîáëåìà àêòóàëüíà.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #10  
Ñòàðûé 08.06.2005, 17:56
papadoctor papadoctor âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.03.2005
Ãîðîä: USA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,685
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
papadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Dr. Makhotin
Íàñêîëüêî ÿ çíàþ, ôèáðîîïòè÷åñêàÿ èíòóáàöèÿ íå âõîäèò â ïðîãðàììó îáó÷åíèÿ îðäèíàòîðîâ.
O4en' zrya
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #11  
Ñòàðûé 08.06.2005, 18:01
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr. Makhotin
Dr. Makhotin Dr. Makhotin âíå ôîðóìà
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 11.10.2004
Ãîðîä: ã. Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 319
Dr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Makhotin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò papadoctor
O4en' zrya
Âîçìîæíî, íî ïðè÷èíû òîìó åñòü, îäíà èç íèõ: ñìîòðèòå âûøå (âñòðå÷àåìîñòü).
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #12  
Ñòàðûé 09.06.2005, 06:28
papadoctor papadoctor âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.03.2005
Ãîðîä: USA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,685
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
papadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Dr. Makhotin
Âîçìîæíî, íî ïðè÷èíû òîìó åñòü, îäíà èç íèõ: ñìîòðèòå âûøå (âñòðå÷àåìîñòü).
Íåñîãëàñåí êàòåãîðè÷åñêè, íî íå áóäåì óõîäèòü îò òåìû. ( ß - ýòîò ñòàðøèé òîâàðèù, ê ñîæàëåíèþ)
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #13  
Ñòàðûé 09.06.2005, 06:39
papadoctor papadoctor âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.03.2005
Ãîðîä: USA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,685
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
papadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Dr. Vadim
Êîëëåãè! Ïðåäëàãàþ ê îáñóæäåíèþ óçêóþ òåìó ôèáðîîïòè÷åñêîé èíòóáàöèè òðàõåè. Îñîáåííî ïðèçûâàþ ïðèíÿòü ó÷àñòèå òåõ, êòî ñàì âëàäååò ýòîé òåõíèêîé. Õî÷ó âûÿñíèòü îáùåñòâåííîå ìíåíèå ïî âîïðîñó: êàêîé ñïîñîá, ïóòü ô/î èíòóáàöèè òðàõåè âû ïðåäïî÷èòàåòå ïðè ïðî÷èõ ðàâíûõ óñëîâèÿõ - îðîòðàõåàëüíûé èëè íàçîòðàõåàëüíûé? ß ñåé÷àñ íå ðàññìàòðèâàþ ñëó÷àè ïîäîáíî òîìó, êîòîðûé ïðèâ¸ë Ïàïàäîêòîð â ñâîåé ïåðâîé çàäà÷êå(ñì. òîïèê). ß íàîáîðîò óñðåäíÿþ ñèòóàöèþ. Äîïóñòèì, âû âèäèòå íà ïðåäîïåðàöèîííîì îñìîòðå, ÷òî ñòàíäàðòíàÿ îðîòðàõåàëüíàÿ èíòóáàöèÿ ñ ëàðèíãîñêîïîì, ïîñëå èíäóêöèè è ðåëàêñàöèè ñêîðåå âñåãî íå ïîéä¸ò è ïðèíèìàåòå ðåøåíèå èíòóáèðîâàòü ñ ïîìîùüþ áðîíõîñêîïà. Ïàöèåíò îòêðûâàåò ðîò äîñòàòî÷íî äëÿ òîãî, ÷òîáû ââåñòè çàãóáíèê. ×òî âû âûáåðåòå - îðî- èëè íàçî-?
Çà ñåáÿ îòâå÷ó ñðàçó. ß ñòîðîííèê ô/î ÍÀÇÎòðàõåàëüíîé èíòóáàöèè. Ýòî áûñòðåå, òàê êàê èçáàâëÿåò îò íåîáõîäèìîñòè ïðîâîäèòü ËÐÀ ÄÏ (ëîêîðåãèîíàëüíóþ àíåñòåçèþ äûõàòåëüíûõ ïóòåé), ýòî óìåíüøàåò ðàñõîä ïðåïàðàòîâ (ÿ òîëüêî ñìà÷èâàþ âàòêó íà òîíêîé ñïèöå ðàñòâîðàìè 10% ëèäîêàèíà è 0,1 % ôåíèëýôðèíà è ââîæó ïîî÷åð¸äíî â êàæäûé íèæíèé íîñîâîé õîä, ÷åì äîáèâàþñü àäåêâàòíîé àíåñòåçèè è àíåìèçàöèè ñëèçèñòîé, ýòî ïðîùå òåõíè÷åñêè (èçãèá òðóáêè íå òàêîé êðóòîé ïîëó÷àåòñÿ, êàê ïðè îðîòðàõåàëüíîé) è ïðè ïðîáóæäåíèè ïàöèåíòà âûçûâàåò ìåíüøèé äèñêîìôîðò ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ îðîòðàõåàëüíîé òðóáêîé.
ß ÷åñòíî æäàë 2 äíÿ ïåðåä òåì êàê âûñêàçàòü ñâî¸ ïðåäâçÿòîå ìíåíèå. Îñíîâíîé âîïðîñ, êîòîðûé ÿ äëÿ ñåáÿ ðåøàþ êîãäà ñìîòðþ áîëüíîãî ñ ïðîáëåìíîé àíàòîìèåé - Ñìîãó ÿ åãî âåíòèëèðîâàòü ïîñëå èíäóêöèè èëè íåò. Åñëè äà,- êëèåíò ñïèò è çàòåì äåëàþ ôèáðîïòèê ÷åðåç ðîò. ×åðåç íîñ íå ëþáëþ â îñíîâíîì èç-çà ðèñêà êðîâîòå÷åíèé. Ñàìè çíàåòå êàðäèî, åñòü êàðäèî.Åñëè ôèáðîïòèê ó áîëüíîãî â " ñîçíàíèè" òî äåëàþ òîïèêàëèçàöèþ è áëîê âåðõíåãî ãîðòàííîãî íåðâà.
Äð. Ìàõîòèí ïðàâ, â òîì ÷òî áðîíõîñêîïèÿ ïðè ïîñòàíîâêè äâóõïðîñâåòîê îáÿçàòåëüíà ïî íàøèì ãàéäëàéíàì, ïîòîìó ÷òî äî 45% äâóõïðîñâåòîê áûëè ïëîõî ïîñòàâëåíû, íåñìîòðÿ íà èäåàëüíöþ àóñêóëüòàöèþ ( îáû÷íî ëèáî î÷åíü ãëóáîêî, ëèáî î÷åíü ïîâåðõíîñòíî. Ìû òàê æå âûïîëíÿåì ïîâòîðíóþ áðîíõîñêîïèþ, êîãäà áîëüíîãî êëàäóò íà áîê, ò.ê. òðóáêè èìåþò òåíäåíöèþ " âñïëûâàòü"
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #14  
Ñòàðûé 10.06.2005, 18:51
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr. Vadim
Dr. Vadim Dr. Vadim âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 06.04.2005
Ãîðîä: Åêàòåðèíáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,709
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 301 ðàç(à) çà 251 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr. Vadim ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ñïàñèáî âñåì ïîäêëþ÷èâøèìñÿ ê äèñêóññèè.
Êîíòðîëü ôèáðîîïòèêîé ïîëîæåíèÿ DLT óæå îáñóæäàëñÿ â äðóãîé òåìå, ãàéäëàéíû ÿ ÷èòàë, íèêîãäà íå ñïîðèë ñ íèìè è ïðèìåíÿþ ýòî ñàì íà ïðàêòèêå, â ñâî¸ì ïîñòå óêàçàë íà ýòî.
Ïðåèìóùåñòâà íàçîòðàõåàëüíîé ÔÎÈ ïåðåä îðîòðàõåàëüíîé òîæå áûëè èçëîæåíû â ìî¸ì ïåðâîì ïîñòå. Íà âñÿêèé ñëó÷àé ïîâòîðþñü.
Èòàê. 1. Ñîêðàùàåòñÿ âðåìÿ âûïîëíåíèÿ ìàíèïóëÿöèè. Äëÿ âûïîëíåíèÿ îðîòðàõåàëüíîé èíòóáàöèè íåîáõîäèìî ïðîâåñòè ò/íàç ëîêîðåãèîíàëüíóþ àíåñòåçèþ äûõ. ïóòåé. Ýòî, â îáùåé ñëîæíîñòè, 5 èíúåêöèé ìåñòíîãî àíåñòåòèêà: ýíäîòðàõåàëüíî ÷åðåç ùèòîïåðñòíåâèäíóþ ìåìáðàíó, 2 èíúåêöèè, ñèììåòðè÷íî, ñêâîçü ùèòîïîäúÿçû÷íóþ ìåìáðàíó (áëîêàäà ãîðòàííûõ íåðâîâ), 2 èíúåêöèè, òàêæå ñèììåòðè÷íî, â ïîëîñòè ðòà, ñ öåëüþ áëîêàäû 9 ïàðû ×ÌÍ (òåõíèêó îïóñêàþ), êðîìå òîãî, îðîøåíèå ìåñòíûì àíåñòåòèêîì ñëèçèñòûõ ïîëîñòè ðòà. Ýòî, ïîä÷åðêíó, åñëè âñ¸ äåëàòü ïî óìó. Ïðè íàçîòðàõåàëüíîé ÔÎÈ äîñòàòî÷íî ïðîâåñòè îðîøåíèå ñëèçèñòûõ ïîëîñòè ðòà ðàñòâîðîì ì/à è àïëèêàöèîííóþ àíåñòåçèþ è àíåìèçàöèþ ñëèçèñòîé íîñà, ÷òî äîñòèãàåòñÿ ââåäåíèåì â íèæíèå íîñîâûå õîäû òîíêîé ñïèöû ñ íàìîòàííîé íà íå¸ êóñî÷êîì âàòû, ñìî÷åííîé â 10% ðàñòâîðå ëèäîêàèíà è ðàñòâîðå ôåíèëýôðèíà. Ñòåðèëüíîñòè, ðàçóìååòñÿ, íå òðåáóåòñÿ. Ó ìîèõ ïàöèåíòîâ íîñîâûõ êðîâîòå÷åíèé íå áûëî íè ðàçó.
2. Èçãèá ÝÒÒ ñîîòâåòñòâåííî àíàòîìè÷åñêîìó èçãèáó ïðè íàçîòðàõåàëüíîé èíòóáàöèè ìåíüøå, ÷åì ïðè îðîòðàõåàëüíîé, òðóáêà ïðîõîäèò ëåã÷å, ïëàâíåå.
3. Ñóáúåêòèâíûå îùóùåíèÿ ïàöèåíòà îò ñòîÿíèÿ òðóáêè â íîñó ïðè ïðîñûïàíèè ìåíåå íåïðèÿòíûå, ÷åì ïðè ñòîÿíèè å¸ âî ðòó. Ðâîòíûé ðåôëåêñ íà òðóáêó ïðàêòè÷åñêè îòñóòñòâóåò. (Òðóáêà íå äàâèò íà êîðåíü ÿçûêà, à ïðîõîäèò ïî çàäíåé ñòåíêè ãëîòêè, íå çàäåâàÿ äàæå êîðåíü ÿçûêà).
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #15  
Ñòàðûé 12.06.2005, 07:46
papadoctor papadoctor âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.03.2005
Ãîðîä: USA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,685
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
papadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Dr. Makhotin
Íàñêîëüêî ÿ çíàþ, ôèáðîîïòè÷åñêàÿ èíòóáàöèÿ íå âõîäèò â ïðîãðàììó îáó÷åíèÿ îðäèíàòîðîâ.  äàëüíåéøåì, òå êòî ñòàëêèâàþòñÿ ñ ýòîé "ïðîáëåìîé", îñâàèâàþò ìåòîäèêó ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíî.
Âïðî÷åì, ÿ íå äóìàþ, ÷òî ìíîãèå àíåñòåçèîëîãè â Ðîññèè ñòàëêèâàþòñÿ ñ ïðîáëåìîé òðóäíîé èíòóáàöèè (íà ñàìîì äåëå âîçìîæíîé òîëüêî ñ ïîìîùüþ îïòèêè, à íå ðåøàåìîé ïóòåì ïðèãëàøåíèÿ áîëåå "îïûòíîãî" êîëëåãè). Âîò äëÿ ÑØÀ ñ ìíîæåñòâîì ïàöèåíòîâ ñ èçáûòî÷íîé ìàññîé òåëà - ýòà ïðîáëåìà àêòóàëüíà.
Ñòàòåéêà íå ñëèøêîì íîâàÿ, íî çàñëóæèâàþùàÿ âíèìàíèÿ
Failed Intubation Revisited: 17-Year Experience in a Teaching Maternity Unit
- Survey of Anesthesiology: June 1997 -

L. HAWTHORNE, R. WILSON, G. LYONS and M. DRESNER
Department of Anaesthesia, St. James's University Hospital, Leeds, United Kingdom

Br. J. Anaesth., 76: 680-684, 1996

Failed tracheal intubation has been an important cause of anesthetic-related maternal morbidity and mortality. Despite the marked decrease in the use of general anesthesia for cesarean section (from 83% in 1981 to 23% currently) within the authors' practice, failure to intubate remains no less common, despite introduction of the laryngeal mask airway (LMA), pulse oximetry, capnography, and a failed intubation drill.

To assess the impact of these clinical practice advances and to clarify the incidence of failed intubation, the authors conducted a prospective audit of all failed intubations (defined as inability to intubate after a single dose of succinylcholine and triggering a failed intubation protocol) for the years 1978 to 1994. Data were further divided into elective and emergency cesarean sections, the time of the incident (8 AM to 5 PM; PM to 9 PM; 9 PM to 8 AM, and weekends), and the personnel available. During the 17-yr period, 5,208 cesarean sections were performed with general anesthesia, and 23 (0.4%) failures to intubate, with the incidence increasing from 1:300 to 1:250 during the period studied, were documented. The patients were Caucasian (56%), Asian (22%), and Afro-Caribbean (22%). Eighteen (78%) of the incidents involved a senior house officer or registrar, and three (13%) involved a senior registrar or consultant. Sixteen (69%) failures occurred at night or on weekends, and five (22%) occurred during the day. The vast majority of incidents (87%) involved anesthesia for emergency surgery. All patients were evaluated preoperatively, but difficult intubation was anticipated in only one-third of cases (Mallampati score II or III). In 15 patients, laryngoscopy allowed visualization of the epiglottis only, and in six patients laryngeal edema was reported (only partially explained by preeclampsia).

Bag and face mask ventilation was difficult in 30% and impossible in two patients. Eighteen patients were awakened, and a regional technique was used. Three patients were ventilated with an LMA, all of whom had laryngeal edema. In a fourth patient, LMA ventilation was not possible, and a bag and mask were used until the morbidly obese patient awakened. One patient was ventilated with a mask and bag when minitracheostomy failed, and one patient was intubated after applying the failed intubation drill.

Overall, outcome for mother and baby was good, save for one patient whose twins had cerebral damage. Subsequent examination of the patients revealed receding jaws in nine, limited mouth opening in seven (with five having both), and prominent teeth in five. Combinations of problems were observed in three patients.

The authors' data record an increase in the incidence of failed intubation from 1:300 to 1:250, despite a declining use of general anesthesia in favor of regional techniques. Part of the explanation may lie in the increasing proportion of Asian and African patients who tend to favor general over regional anesthesia. This implies a need for better communication and patient education about certain advantages of regional anesthesia. The usual anatomic factors associated with difficult intubation were sometimes noted, especially small oral aperture and receding jaw. Nevertheless, clinical examination was normal in one-third of patients, and two-thirds had been intubated successfully on another occasion. This disparity can be partially explained by the soft tissue engorgement associated with normal pregnancy and the more acute changes of preeclampsia.

In addition to anatomic factors, difficulties can have an environmental basis. Most problems were associated with emergency situations outside of usual working hours, with trainees being chiefly involved. The progressive decrease in general anesthesia for cesarean section implies that trainees are less experienced with problems of general anesthesia for cesarean section. Among areas for future training and management of these problems are teaching methods to deal with poor airway visualization, emphasizing appropriate use of cricoid pressure, and including the LMA as part of a difficult intubation protocol.

Comment

Failed tracheal intubation is said to have an incidence almost eight times greater in the obstetric population than in other groups.1 Indeed, in the American Society of Anesthesiologists Closed Claims Study, difficult intubation and esophageal intubation comprised 23% of damaging events associated with obstetric general anesthesia.2

It is important to underscore that in one-third of the patients in whom there was difficulty with intubation discussed in the current audit, clinical examination of the airway was normal and nearly two-thirds had undergone intubation successfully on another occasion. Because bony structures are unchanged from the nonpregnant state, factors contributing to intubation difficulty in these patients presumably involved the soft tissues. (One might also interject at this time that Mallampati assessment is not impressively accurate in predicting complicated intubations). Capillary engorgement of the nasopharynx and larynx during pregnancy has been well described, and generalized edema is thought to be secondary to the effect of estrogen on the ground substance of connective tissue. Interestingly, all three patients in whom the LMA was used successfully had laryngeal edema. Although protection against aspiration is not provided, the LMA can help maintain oxygenation in patients who are difficult to ventilate or when life-threatening hemorrhage is imminent and surgery must be continued. Indeed, the authors have now modified their difficult intubation regimen to include the LMA.

The authors comment that the clinical practice in their unit during the past decade reflects the following of Great Britain as a whole: an increased number of cesarean sections, an increased percentage of sections performed under regional anesthesia, and no change in the total number of obstetric general anesthetics. During this time frame, however, there has been an increased number of anesthesia trainees, resulting in a decreased individual case load of obstetric general anesthetics performed. It is tempting to speculate that reduced exposure to general anesthesia in obstetrics perhaps may be contributing to the higher incidence (1:250 vs. 1:300) of intubation failure described.

The good news is that maternal deaths associated with anesthesia at the beginning of the last decade in Great Britain comprised 13% of all maternal deaths,3 but by the end of the decade this had declined to 2.2 percent.4 Indeed, it has been suggested that this impressive reduction in maternal mortality is a result of the declining use of general anesthesia.5 The more somber new is that when airway challenges associated with general anesthesia in the obstetric patient are encountered, the anesthetist may be less skilled in managing these critical situations.

Kathryn E. McGoldrick, M.D.

References

1. King TA, Adams AP. Failed tracheal intubation. Br J Anaesth 1990;65:400-14.

2. Chadwick HS, Posner KL, Caplan R, Ward RJ, Cheney FW. A comparison of obstetric and nonobstetric malpractice claims. Anesthesiology 1991;74:242-9.

3. Report on Confidential Enquiry into Maternal Deaths in England and Wales in 1982-1984. London: HMSO, DHSS 1989.

4. Report on Confidential Enquiry into Maternal Deaths in Great Britain in 1988-1990. London: HMSO, DHSS 1994.

5. Thomas TA. Maternal mortality. Int J Obstet Anaesth 1994;3:125-6.

Survey of Anesthesiology: June 1997 Contents

© 1994 - 2005, GASNet. All rights reserved. Page last modified on Jun 18th, 2001
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
Îòâåò



Âàøè ïðàâà â ðàçäåëå
Âû íå ìîæåòå ñîçäàâàòü òåìû
Âû íå ìîæåòå îòâå÷àòü íà ñîîáùåíèÿ
Âû íå ìîæåòå ïðèêðåïëÿòü ôàéëû
Âû íå ìîæåòå ðåäàêòèðîâàòü ñîîáùåíèÿ

BB êîäû Âêë.
Ñìàéëû Âêë.
[IMG] êîä Âêë.
HTML êîä Âûêë.



×àñîâîé ïîÿñ GMT +3, âðåìÿ: 06:58.




Ðàáîòàåò íà vBulletin® âåðñèÿ 3.
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.