Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà
MedNavigator.ru - Ïîèñê è ïîäáîð ëå÷åíèÿ â Ðîññèè è çà ðóáåæîì
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 11.02.2014, 19:24
mariyabel mariyabel âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.06.2013
Ãîðîä: Êàëèíèíãðàä
Ñîîáùåíèé: 3
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 2
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Äëèòåëüíûé "ìåäîâûé ìåñÿö" Ñàõàðíîãî Äèàáåòà 1 òèïà èëè æå Lada(Mody) - äèàáåò?

Êîëëåãè, õî÷ó óñëûøàòü âàøå ìíåíèå è ñîâåòû ïî äàëüíåéøåé òàêòèêå â äàííîì êëèíè÷åñêîì ñëó÷àå.
Ó ìåíÿ íàáëþäàåòñÿ ïàöèåíò - ìîëîäîé ÷åëîâåê 1982 ãîäà ðîæäåíèÿ ñ Ñàõàðíûì äèàáåòîì 1 òèïà. Ñëó÷àè Ñàõàðíîãî äèàáåòà â ñåìüå îòðèöàåò. Âåñ 68 êã, ðîñò - 176 (â íàñòîÿùèé ìîìåíò). Äåáþò äèàáåòà - 08.01.2013 ãîäà, ïîñëå ïåðåíåñåííîé ÎÐÂÈ ñòàë îòìå÷àòü æàæäó, ñóõîñòü âî ðòó, ïîõóäåíèå â òå÷åíèå 2 ìåñÿöåâ íà 10 êã, â á\õ àíàëèçå êðîâè âûÿâëåíà ãèïåðãëèêåìèÿ - 18,0 ììîëü\ë. Ãîñïèòàëèçèðîâàí â îáëàñòíóþ áîëüíèöó ñ äèàãíîçîì - âïåðâûå âûÿâëåííûé äèàáåò 1 òèïà, êåòîàöèäîç.
Èç âûïèñêè: ñàìûé âûñîêèé óðîâåíü ñàõàðà - 17,6 â ïåðâûé äåíü ãîñïèòàëèçàöèè. HbA1C=11,1%. ðÍ=6,94, Na = 140 ììîëü\ë, Ê=4,2 ììîëü\ë, ÂÅ(Â) = 25,6 ììîëü\ë. Íàçíà÷åíû Ëàíòóñ 10 åä, Àïèäðà ïî 6 åä íà ïðèåìû ïèùè. Âûïèñûâàåòñÿ â óäîâëåòâîðèòåëüíîì ñîñòîÿíèè.  îáùåì-òî,"êàðòèíà ìàñëîì". Íè÷åãî óäèâèòåëüíîãî. Äàëüøå îí ïðèõîäèò êî ìíå â ïîëèêëèíèêó è íà÷èíàåò íàáëþäàòüñÿ.  ïåðâûé æå ìåñÿö ñíèæàåì äîçû äî 4 åä Ëàíòóñà è ïî 1-2 åä Àïèäðû, òàê êàê íà÷èíàåò ãèïîâàòü. ß îáúÿñíÿþ âñ¸ "ìåäîâûì ìåñÿöåì" è ñïîêîéíî æèâó.  êîíöå ïåðâîãî ìåñÿöà ïîñëå ãîñïèòàëèçàöèè ïàöèåíò, âîîáùå, îòêàçûâàåòñÿ îò èíúåêöèé èíñóëèíà - ñî ñëîâ, ãèïóåò. Íà ìîå òðåáîâàíèå ñòàâèòü õîòÿ áû 1 åä Ëàíòóñà äëÿ ïðîòåêöèè Á-êëåòîê è ïðîäëåíèÿ ìåäîâîãî ìåñÿöà íå ðåàãèðóåò. Ëàäíî, íàáëþäàåìñÿ äàëüøå. Êñòàòè ñêàçàòü, ïàöèåíò íà ïðèåì ìíå âñåãäà ïðèíîñèë ñâîè ãðàôèêè ñàõàðîâ (èçìåðÿë êàê ïîëîæåíî 5-6 ðàç â äåíü êàæäûé äåíü) â âèäå ðàñïå÷àòàííûõ òàáëèö â Excel. Öèôðû ñàõàðîâ êîëåáàëèñü îò 3,0 - äî 7,0 ììîëü\ë.
 êîíöå íîÿáðÿ 2013 ìåíÿ ãëîæåò ëþáîïûòñòâî, íåóæåëè òàêîé äëèòåëüíûé è èäåàëüíûé ìåäîâûé ìåñÿö? Èëè ýòî íå 1 òèï äèàáåòà? ß îòïðàâëÿþ åãî íà ñ-ïåïòèä è ÀÒ ê Á-êëåòêàì. Õîòåëîñü áû ïîñìîòðåòü åù¸ è ÀÒ ê èíñóëèíó è GAD, íî, òàê êàê ïàöèåíò ñäàâàë âñ¸ çà ñâîè êðîâíûå, è, â ïðèíöèïå, îñîáî íå ãîðåë ñäàâàòü êàêèå-òî àíàëèçû, îáîøëèñü òîëüêî ýòèì. Ñ-ïåïòèä íàòîùàê îò êîíöà íîÿáðÿ 2013 - 467 (258-1718). ÀÒ ê Á-êëåòêàì - îòðèöàòåëüíûå. Íà ýòîì è îñòàíîâèëèñü...
Ïàöèåíò ïî íàñòîÿùåå âðåìÿ èíúåêöèè èíñóëèíà íå îñóùåñòâëÿåò. Ãëèêåìèÿ â òå÷åíèå äíÿ - äî 7,0 ììîëü\ë, íàòîùàê äî 6,0 ììîëü\ë. Ñîáëþäàåò äèåòó. Èñêëþ÷èë áûñòðûå óãëåâîäû, ìåäëåííûå óïîòðåáëÿåò êàæäûé äåíü. Ê ñëîâó ñêàçàòü - ïüåò íàñòîé îñèíîâûé êîðû... Ïîøåë 2 ãîä ìåäîâîãî ìåñÿöà.
Êîëëåãè, ðàññêàæèòå, êàêèå ïî äëèòåëüíîñòè ìåäîâûå ìåñÿöà âñòðå÷àëèñü â âàøåé ïðàêòèêå? Ìîæåò áûòü ýòî MODY èëè LADA äèàáåò? Ìíå î÷åíü õî÷åòñÿ ðàçîáðàòüñÿ â äàííîì êëèíè÷åñêîì ñëó÷àå. Ðàáîòàþ â Êàëèíèíãðàäå, âîçìîæíîñòè ñäåëàòü ãåíåòè÷åñêèå àíàëèçû íà Mody- äèàáåò çäåñü íåò (õîòÿ äëÿ ìîäè è ñåìåéíîãî àíàìíåçà íåò). ÀÒ áåñïëàòíî òîæå íå äåëàþò. Êàê ìîæíî ïðîÿñíèòü ñèòóàöèþ?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 11.02.2014, 21:13
Samitin Samitin âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.08.2009
Ãîðîä: Ñàðàòîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 2,224
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 8
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 765 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Samitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Î ïðîäîëæèòåëüíîñòè "ìåäîâîãî ìåñÿöà" ÑÄ1 íàõîäèòñÿ òàêîå (ïðàâäà, ðå÷ü èäåò î äåòÿõ):

Two-year prospective evaluation of the factors affecting honeymoon frequency and duration in children with insulin dependent diabetes mellitus: the key-role of age at diagnosis - Diabetes Nutr Metab. 2002 Aug;15(4):246-51 ([Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]):

Öèòàòà:
The aim of this study was to investigate the influence of pre-treatment variables on subsequent insulin requirement (IR) and partial remission (PR) in children with insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus (T1DM). Sixty-seven children with newly diagnosed T1DM, admitted to our Clinic during a 3-year recruitment period, were longitudinally evaluated for 2 yr. ... More than 80% of the children experienced a PR, which lasted more than 12 months in 41.7% and at least 24 months in 16.4% of cases. The prevalence of PR at different ages after T1DM onset was significantly lower in children diagnosed while younger than 5 years than in those diagnosed after 5 years. The mean duration of the remission period was 11.7 +/- 8.9 months, irrespectively of sex, duration of the symptomatic period preceding T1DM diagnosis, parental education, blood pH and base excess, HbA1c concentration and admission duration. Beta-cell residual function evaluated after glucagons stimulation test (basal and 6 min C-peptide) was statistically different in PR patients and in those who experienced no remission. Age at diagnosis was the only pre-treatment factor which, on stepwise regression analysis, affected both PR duration and IR at the end of follow-up. To conclude, honeymoon frequency and duration are strictly conditioned by both residual beta-cell function and IR at T1DM onset. Since IR is higher in younger subjects, early onset of T1DM can be considered the factor with the most detrimental influence on honeymoon incidence. Other pre-treatment variables have no significant impact on PR.

'The honeymoon phase' in children with type 1 diabetes mellitus: frequency, duration, and influential factors - Pediatr Diabetes. 2006 Apr;7(2):101-7 ([Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]):


Öèòàòà:
METHODS:
A group of 103 diabetic children, younger than 12 yr of age, were prospectively studied to assess the frequency, duration, and factors that may affect partial remission. ... The honeymoon period was defined as a period with insulin requirements of less than 0.5 U/kg/day and hemoglobin A1c (HbA1c) level of less or equal to 6%.
RESULTS:
Partial remission occurred in 71, being complete in three. The length of time until remission was 28.6 +/- 12.3 (mean +/- SD) days [ïîíÿòíî, ÷òî ýòî íå ëó÷øåå îïèñàíèå äëÿ ðàñïðåäåëåíèÿ, îòëè÷íîãî îò íîðìàëüíîãî, íî êâàðòèëåé, ìèíèìóìóìà è ìàêñèìóìà â àáñòðàêòå íåò - ÂÑ]. The duration of remission was 7.2 +/- 4.8 months. Remission rates were higher in those patients older than 5 yr compared with those between 3 and 5 yr of age. DKA at presentation and long duration of symptoms were associated with lower duration of remission (p < 0.001 and p < 0.001, respectively). Children in whom remission occurred had significantly lower blood glucose levels and higher pH at presentation (p < 0.001 and p < 0.001, respectively).
CONCLUSIONS:
Young age and severe disease at presentation are associated with decreased residual beta-cells function that is reflected by a lower incidence of partial remission. ...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 11.02.2014, 21:36
Samitin Samitin âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.08.2009
Ãîðîä: Ñàðàòîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 2,224
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 8
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 765 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Samitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
È åù¸ ïðåêðàñíûé ñëó÷àé:
Long-Term Discontinuation of Insulin Treatment in a Type 1 Diabetic Patient - A case for late autoimmune diabetes of the adult? - Diabetes Care April 2003 vol. 26 no. 4 1314-1315 ([Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]): äëèòåëüíàÿ îòìåíà èíñóëèíà íå ñîïðîâîæäàëàñü ðàçâèòèåì êåòîàöèäîçà, ÷òî ïîçâîëèëî ïðåäïîëîæèòü LADA.
È ïðåêðàñíûå æå â ñâîåé ÷åñòíîñòè âûâîäû:
Öèòàòà:
In our opinion, two conclusions can be drawn from the case. First, despite years of intensive research, pathophysiology of diabetes is still far from being clear, as even type 1 diabetes seems to be a heterogenous disease. Our patient was developing diabetic symptoms relatively slowly, and had it not been for her age and slim build, she could well have been regarded as a type 2 diabetic subject. Second, the presence of autoantibodies typical of autoimmune diabetes may not definitely lead to the diagnosis of type 1 diabetes because many patients with type 2 diabetes may also present with some features of autoimmunity. Therefore, finding clear, unequivocal criteria for differentiation between type 1 and type 2 diabetes seems to be the urgent issue of utmost importance.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 11.02.2014, 22:18
mariyabel mariyabel âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.06.2013
Ãîðîä: Êàëèíèíãðàä
Ñîîáùåíèé: 3
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 2
mariyabel *
Ñïàñèáî çà ññûëêè. Ñ òðóäîì,íî ïðî÷èòàëà (íàäî ïîäòÿãèâàòü àíãëèéñêèé)
Âûâîä òàêîé, êàê ÿ ïîíÿëà, ×åì ïîçäíåå äåáþò ÑÄ 1 òèïà, òåì ìÿã÷å îí ïðîòåêàåò, ñ áîëåå äëèííûì ìåäîâûì ìåñÿöåì.  äàííîì ñëó÷àå, ïàöèåíòó íà ìîìåíò äåáþòà áûë 31 ãîä.
Íó è íèêòî íå èñêëþ÷àåò LADA-äèàáåò..  Ðîññèè äèàãíîñòèðóþò LADA? Èëè òîëüêî êëèíè÷åñêè-ýìïèðè÷åñêè?
Ïðîñòèòå,÷òî ñòîëüêî âîïðîñîâ,ÿ ìîëîäîé äîêòîð. Ó ìåíÿ 3îå òàêèõ ïàöèåíòîâ ñ íåòèïè÷íîé êàðòèíîé äèàáåòà, íå äàþò ìíå ñïàòü, ìîé ïûòëèâûé óì íå ìîæåò óñïîêîèòüñÿ, íî îñòàëüíûå 2 - äåòè è ñ ñåìåéíûì àíàìíåçîì äèàáåòà (òàì êàê ðàç ñêîðåå âñåãî Ìîäè).
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 11.02.2014, 23:25
Samitin Samitin âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.08.2009
Ãîðîä: Ñàðàòîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 2,224
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 8
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 765 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Samitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Äèàãíîñòèêà LADA íåïðîñòà, è ïîêà ïðîùå íå ñòàíîâèòñÿ (òàê, ïîëîæèòåëüíûå, íî "íèçêîòèòðîâûå" àíòèòåëà ê GAD íå ãàðàíòèðóþò îòëè÷èÿ LADA îò ÑÄ-2 - ñì. LADA: Time for a New Definition - [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] è ðàáîòó ïî êèòàéñêîé ïîïóëÿöèè, ïîñëóæèâøóþ îñíîâîé ê ýòîìó êîììåíòàðèþ).
Ñòðàòåãè÷åñêè âàæíî êàê ðàç îòäåëÿòü LADA îò ÑÄ2, ò.ê. ýòî ïîçâîëÿåò ñâîåâðåìåííî ðåêîìåíäîâàòü èíñóëèíîòåðàïèþ.
 îáñóæäàåìîì ñëó÷àå, IMHO, ìîæåò áûòü ñîõðàíåí äèàãíîç ÑÄ1 - êàê ìèíèìóì äî îêîí÷àíèÿ îïèñàííîé ãèïîòåòè÷åñêîé ïðîäîëæèòåëüíîñòè "ìåäîâîãî ìåñÿöà" â 2 ãîäà. Õîòÿ àíòè-GAD, êîíå÷íî. õîòåëîñü áû âèäåòü.
Íàäåþñü, êîëëåãè ìåíÿ äîïîëíÿò.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 19.02.2014, 16:58
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,202
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,595 ðàç(à) çà 32,669 ñîîáùåíèé
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È â Ðîññèè , è â ìèðå äèàãíîñòèðóþò äèàáåò LADA,ðàâíî êàê è ìåäëåííî ðàçâèâàþùèéñÿ äèàáåò 1 òèïà ( ÷òî ñêîðåå )
.Íèêîíîâà ñî Ñìèðíîâîé â ÝÍÖ ñòðàøíî îáèäåëèñü áû - ëþäè ãîäêîâ 15 êàê ïóáëèêóþòñÿ íà ýòó òåìó, à òóò ýëåãàíòíûé âîïðîñ - à â Ðîññèè äèàãíîñòèðóþò ëè ?
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