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Õèðóðãèÿ Ôîðóìû: Ôëåáîëîãèÿ, ñîñóäèñòàÿ õèðóðãèÿ, Ôîðóì äëÿ âðà÷åé õèðóðãîâ

Îòâåò
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 28.09.2005, 23:18
Àâàòàð äëÿ Vasilenko
Vasilenko Vasilenko âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 05.09.2005
Ãîðîä: Íàäûì
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,608
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 53 ðàç(à) çà 48 ñîîáùåíèé
Vasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVasilenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ïàíêðåîíåêðîç - êîãäà îïåðèðîâàòü?

Ïðåäëàãàþòñÿ äâà ìíåíèÿ. Ïåðâîå - ðàííÿÿ îïåðàöèÿ ïðè ìàëåéøåì ïîäîçðåíèè íà äåñòðóêòèâíûé ïàíêðåàòèò, ðàññå÷åíèå, âñêðûòèå è äðåíèðîâàíèå âñåãî ÷åãî âîçìîæíî, íå èñêëþ÷åíî ëàïàðîñêîïè÷åñêè.
Âòîðîå - ìàêñèìàëüíî êîíñåðâàòèâíîå ëå÷åíèå, îïåðàöèÿ â ôàçå ñåêâåñòðàöèè íå ðàíåå ÷åì ÷åðåç 2-3 íåäåëè.

Ó êîãî êàêèå ìíåíèÿ? Çàðàíåå áëàãîäàðåí.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 28.09.2005, 23:28
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dobro
Dobro Dobro âíå ôîðóìà
çàáàíåí
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 25.09.2003
Ñîîáùåíèé: 466
Dobro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDobro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDobro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDobro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDobro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDobro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDobro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDobro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDobro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 29.09.2005, 18:39
badma
Ãîñòü
 
Ñîîáùåíèé: n/a
«Çàïîçäàëîå èëè ìàëîýôôåêòèâíîå îïåðàòèâíîå âìåøàòåëüñòâî (ïðè ïàíêðåàòèòå) ïðèâîäèò ê ïî÷òè 100% ëåòàëüíîñòè»

Uhl W., Büchler M. Acute pancreatitis. Novel concepts in biology and therapy. Blackwell Science, 1999.


«Ìàêñèìàëüíûé ñðîê èíòåíñèâíîé òåðàïèè äëÿ îïðåäåëåíèÿ åå ýôôåêòèâíîñòè è ïîêàçàíèé ê îïåðàöèè íå äîëæíû ïðåâûøàòü 5 ñóòîê»

Beger H., Follow-up on closed surgical treatment of pancreatic necrosis. Plenary, EIHPBA, Amsterdam, 2001

«Èíôèöèðîâàííûé ïàíêðåîíåêðîç íå ïîäõîäèò äëÿ ìàëîèíâàçèâíûõ âìåøàòåëüñòâ –
ëåòàëüíîñòü 59%»

Zirngibl H., 1999.

«Èíôèöèðîâàííûé ïàíêðåîíåêðîç - ïîêàçàíèå äëÿ îòêðûòîãî îïåðàòèâíîãî âìåøàòåëüñòâà, à íå äëÿ ÷ðåñêîæíûõ ìàíèïóëÿöèé.»

Farcas G., 1999.

È ÍÀÊÎÍÅÖ

«Ïðè ïàíêðåîíåêðîçå ÷àñòî ñëèøêîì ìàëî äåëàåòñÿ ñëèøêîì ïîçäíî.»

Fielding L., 1986.

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Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 29.09.2005, 20:07
Gallen Gallen âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.07.2002
Ãîðîä: UA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 6,085
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 568 ðàç(à) çà 534 ñîîáùåíèé
Gallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Vasilenko
Ïðåäëàãàþòñÿ äâà ìíåíèÿ. Ïåðâîå - ðàííÿÿ îïåðàöèÿ ïðè ìàëåéøåì ïîäîçðåíèè íà äåñòðóêòèâíûé ïàíêðåàòèò, ðàññå÷åíèå, âñêðûòèå è äðåíèðîâàíèå âñåãî ÷åãî âîçìîæíî, íå èñêëþ÷åíî ëàïàðîñêîïè÷åñêè.
Âòîðîå - ìàêñèìàëüíî êîíñåðâàòèâíîå ëå÷åíèå, îïåðàöèÿ â ôàçå ñåêâåñòðàöèè íå ðàíåå ÷åì ÷åðåç 2-3 íåäåëè.

Ó êîãî êàêèå ìíåíèÿ? Çàðàíåå áëàãîäàðåí.
Êàê ãîâîðèò ðóêîâîäèòåëü îäíîé èç ìîèõ êàôåäð (à îí ýòî ïîâòîðÿåò çà äðóãèìè) "Èñòèíà ãäå-òî... ïî ñåðåäèíå..."

Ïðè óâåðåííîñòè â èíôèöèðîâàíè ïàíêðåîíåêðîçà ìåäëèòü ñ ëàïàðîòîìèåé, èìõî, î÷åíü ðèñêîâàíî.

Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû ëþáîé ïàíêðåîíåêðîç èíôèöèðóåòñÿ, îäíàêî ýòî íå îçíà÷àåò, ÷òî ëþáîé ïàíêðåàòèò îïåðèðîâàòü ñðàçó (è ýòî ïîíÿòíî).

 óñëîâèÿõ ÖÐÁ, ïðè ìàëî-ìàëüñêîé óâåðåííîñòè â ïàíêðåîíåêðîçå, êàæåòñÿ, ëó÷øå ñîïåðèðîâàòü - èíà÷å, ïðè íåáëàãîïðèÿòíîì èñõîäå, çàä áóäóò "ïîëüçîâàòü" íå òîëüêî ðîäñòâåííèêè, íî è îáëàñòíîå íà÷àëüñòâî... À ïðè óñïåõå - íè ìåäàëü íå ïîâåñÿò íà ãðóäü, íè áëàãîäàðíîñòè îò áîëüíîãî/ðîäñòâåííèêîâ íå áóäåò (è òàê èñòîùàòñÿ íà ëå÷åíèå)...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 29.09.2005, 20:47
DIAMAL DIAMAL âíå ôîðóìà
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 22.09.2005
Ãîðîä: Ìåù¸ðà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 577
DIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDIAMAL ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Àãà! À ïîòîì åù¸ âûæèâøèé çà ïîñëåäóþùèå ãîäû îáîñòðåíèé òàê ãëàçà íàìîçîëèò, ÷òî çàâàëèòü åãî çàõî÷åòñÿ óæå ñàìîìó ýñêóëàïó!
Äà è ëåòàëüíîñòü 59%- ýòî òîëüêî ó Zirngibl H. Ê Ðîññèè â öåëîì ýòî íå îòíîñèòñÿ...
Ìåñòíûå óñòàíîâêè ñëåäóþùèå: íà÷èíàåì êîíñåðâàòèâíî, çàêàí÷èâàåì ïðè ñåêâåñòðèðîâàíèè øèðîêî è ãëóáîêî.
3 ãîäà íàçàä óìåð ðîäíîé äÿäüêà 62 ëåò. Ïàíêðåîíåêðîç. Êàê íà÷àë "ñâå÷êè" âûäàâàòü,- íà 3-é íåäåëå,- òàê è âçÿëè íà ñòîë. Âûãðåáëè ïî ìàêñèìóìó. Âðîäå íè÷åãî. À ïîòîì ÷åðåç íåñêîëüêî ñóòîê àððîçèâíîå êàê àõíóëî...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 11.10.2005, 22:18
pandoc
Ãîñòü
 
Ñîîáùåíèé: n/a
Which statement about nutrition in patients with acute pancreatitis is MOST likely true? (Best choice)


A. Enteral starvation increases gut lymphoid tissue.
B. The use of total parenteral nutrition (TPN) lowers the incidence of infectious complications.
C. Jejunal feeding results in a lower incidence of surgical interventions.
D. The use of TPN is associated with a marked antiinflammatory response.

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
alex_md îäîáðèë(à): board question C
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 12.10.2005, 00:04
Àâàòàð äëÿ empiric
empiric empiric âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 30.03.2005
Ãîðîä: ã.Âîðîíåæ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 503
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 41
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 3 ðàç(à) çà 2 ñîîáùåíèé
empiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Vasilenko
Ïðåäëàãàþòñÿ äâà ìíåíèÿ. Ïåðâîå - ðàííÿÿ îïåðàöèÿ ïðè ìàëåéøåì ïîäîçðåíèè íà äåñòðóêòèâíûé ïàíêðåàòèò, ðàññå÷åíèå, âñêðûòèå è äðåíèðîâàíèå âñåãî ÷åãî âîçìîæíî, íå èñêëþ÷åíî ëàïàðîñêîïè÷åñêè.
Âòîðîå - ìàêñèìàëüíî êîíñåðâàòèâíîå ëå÷åíèå, îïåðàöèÿ â ôàçå ñåêâåñòðàöèè íå ðàíåå ÷åì ÷åðåç 2-3 íåäåëè.
Ó íàñ ýòîò âîïðîñ ðåøàåòñÿ ïðîñòî .Åñëè õèðóðãàì ïîñëå íàøèõ ìåðîïðèÿòèé ,òèïà ïàðàíåôðàëüíîé áëîêàäû èëè ãëþêîçî-íîâîêèíîâîé ñìåñè(íå ñìåéòåñü ,ýòî ïðàâäà ),æèâîò ïî ïðåæíåìó íå íðàâèòñÿ ,òî ëàïàðîòîìèÿ ,äðåíèðîâàíèå ñàëüíèêîâîé ñóìêè, òðóáîé äèàìåòðîì 2-2,5 ñì. íåèçáåæíà.×åðåç íå¸(òðóáó) ìû ââîäèì âñÿêèå äîðîãîñòîÿùèå ïðåïàðàòû òèïà èíãèáèòîðîâ ïðîòåàç èëè ñîìàòîñòàòèíîâ. ×åðåç êîíòð-àïïåðòóðû, ñîîòâåòñâåííî, íå ïîëó÷àåì íè÷åãî. Íà ñàìîì äåëå âîïðîñ ñîñòîèò â äîêàçàòåëüíîñòè äåñòðóêòèâíîñòè, íà íàøåì óðîâíå.Äîñòàòî÷íî ÷àñòî ìû óñïåâàåì ñïàñòè ïàöèåíòà îò ðàäèêàëüíîãî ëå÷åíèÿ.×àñòî ïîñëå íàøåé èíòåíñèâíîé òåðàïèè, è 2-õ ñóòî÷íîé "ïîëîæèòåëüíîé" äèíàìèêè ïðèõîäèòñÿ õâàòàòü åãî íà ñòîë,è "ëîâèòü" äàâëåíèå 40-60 ìì.ðò.ñò., âñþ îïåðöèþ, íå ñìîòðÿ íà ïðîâîäèìóþ "èíôóçèîííî-òðàíñôóçèîííóþ" òåðàïèþ, . Ïîëèãëþêèí ñ ïîëÿðèçóõîé (1:3) äà çäðàâñòâóåò Áóíàòÿí! Òàê ÷òî ÷¸ðò åãî çíàåò, êàê äåéñòâîâàòü â êîíêðåòíîì ñëó÷àå?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 12.10.2005, 00:19
Gallen Gallen âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.07.2002
Ãîðîä: UA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 6,085
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 568 ðàç(à) çà 534 ñîîáùåíèé
Gallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ïàðàíåôðàëüíàÿ áëîêàäà... Íàôòàëèíîì ïîïàõèâàåò êàê-òî...
 íàøåì îòäåëåíèè íàâåðíîå óæå ëåò 15 å¸ íå äåëàëè çà íåíàäîáíîñòüþ. Èëè îò ëåíè?..
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #9  
Ñòàðûé 12.10.2005, 00:30
Àâàòàð äëÿ empiric
empiric empiric âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 30.03.2005
Ãîðîä: ã.Âîðîíåæ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 503
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 41
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 3 ðàç(à) çà 2 ñîîáùåíèé
empiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Gallen
Ïàðàíåôðàëüíàÿ áëîêàäà... Íàôòàëèíîì ïîïàõèâàåò êàê-òî...
 íàøåì îòäåëåíèè íàâåðíîå óæå ëåò 15 å¸ íå äåëàëè çà íåíàäîáíîñòüþ. Èëè îò ëåíè?..
Íàôòàëèíîì èëè åù¸ ÷åì, ÿ íå çíàþ... Íî òîëüêî íàøà êàôåäðà ôàêóëüòåòñêîé õèðóðãèè òðåáóåò .
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #10  
Ñòàðûé 12.10.2005, 00:35
Gallen Gallen âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.07.2002
Ãîðîä: UA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 6,085
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 568 ðàç(à) çà 534 ñîîáùåíèé
Gallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Êàôåäðû - äà. ß ñàì ïðîçðåâàë åù¸ íà èíòåðíàòóðå, êàê îíè èãëàìè, òèïà "âîçäóøåê" ïî÷êè êîëþò. ß òàê è íå îòâàæèëñÿ - îñòàâèë ïðî÷åðê â äíåâíèêå ïîäãîòîâêè èíòåðíà... Ãëàâíîå ÿ íå ïîíèìàë - ó íàñ â ÖÐÁ ýòîò áîëåâîé íåïëîõî ñíèìàëñÿ ñïàçìîëèòèêàìè, èíôóçèîííîé, íó ïðîìåäîë èíîãäà, à íà êàôåäðå áîëüíûå êîð÷èëèñü â îæèäàíèè íàãðåòîãî íîâîêàèíà...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #11  
Ñòàðûé 12.10.2005, 00:50
Àâàòàð äëÿ empiric
empiric empiric âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 30.03.2005
Ãîðîä: ã.Âîðîíåæ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 503
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 41
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 3 ðàç(à) çà 2 ñîîáùåíèé
empiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Gallen
Êàôåäðû - äà. ß ñàì ïðîçðåâàë åù¸ íà èíòåðíàòóðå, êàê îíè èãëàìè, òèïà "âîçäóøåê" ïî÷êè êîëþò. ß òàê è íå îòâàæèëñÿ - îñòàâèë ïðî÷åðê â äíåâíèêå ïîäãîòîâêè èíòåðíà... Ãëàâíîå ÿ íå ïîíèìàë - ó íàñ â ÖÐÁ ýòîò áîëåâîé íåïëîõî ñíèìàëñÿ ñïàçìîëèòèêàìè, èíôóçèîííîé, íó ïðîìåäîë èíîãäà, à íà êàôåäðå áîëüíûå êîð÷èëèñü â îæèäàíèè íàãðåòîãî íîâîêàèíà...
Ñòðàííî äåëî ß çà âðåìÿ èíòåðí-îðäèí. äåñÿòêè åñëè íå ñîòíè áëîêàä ñîòâîðèë.Íè îäíîãî îñëîæíåíèÿ.È ó ìîèõ îäíîêàøíèêîâ íè÷åãî.Ïðîöåäóðà ïðîñòà êàê óãîë äîìà.Îòêóäà òàêîé íåãàòèâèçì â îòíîøåíèè ìàíóàëüíîãî íàâûêà? (òåðàïåâòè÷åñêèé ýôôåêò ÿ íå îáñóæäàþ). .
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #12  
Ñòàðûé 12.10.2005, 01:13
pandoc
Ãîñòü
 
Ñîîáùåíèé: n/a
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Gallen
Ïàðàíåôðàëüíàÿ áëîêàäà... Íàôòàëèíîì ïîïàõèâàåò êàê-òî...
 íàøåì îòäåëåíèè íàâåðíîå óæå ëåò 15 å¸ íå äåëàëè çà íåíàäîáíîñòüþ. Èëè îò ëåíè?..
Óâàæàåìûé Ýìïèðèê!Åñëè Âàøè êàôåäðàëüíûå äåëàþò ïàðàíåôðàëüíûå áëîêàäû ïðè áîëÿõ â ïîäæåëóäî÷íîé æåëåçå,òî ó íèõ äîâîëüíî õðåíîâî îáñòîÿò äåëà ñ àíàòîìèåé è ôèçèîëîãèåé ïåðèôåðè÷åñêîé íåðâíîé ñèñòåìû.Äåëàòü ïàðàíåôðàëüíóþ áëîêàäó â òàêîé ñèòóàöèè ïðèìåðíî òî æå,÷òî ââîäèòü ìåñòíûé àíåñòåòèê â áîëüøîé ïàëåö íîãè äëÿ ïðîâåäåíèÿ òîíçèëëåêòîìèè.Åñëè ðå÷ü èäåò î ðåãèîíàðíûõ ìåòîäàõ ïðè ïàíêðåàòè÷åñêèõ áîëÿõ,òî äëÿ ýòîãî ñóùåñòâóåò áëîêàäà ñîëíå÷íîãî ñïëåòåíèÿ (celiac plexus block ),êîòîðàÿ ÷àùå äåëàåòñÿ ïðè ðàêå ïîäæåëóäî÷íîé æåëåçû,ëèáî ýïèäóðàëüíàÿ àíàëãåçèÿ.



(Three posterior percutaneous celiac plexus block techniques. A prospective, randomized study in 61 patients with pancreatic cancer pain.

Ischia S, Ischia A, Polati E, Finco G.

Institute of Anesthesiology and Intensive Care, University of Verona, Ospedale Policlinico Borgo Roma, Italy.

Variations and refinements of the classic retrocrural technique of neurolytic celiac plexus block (NCPB) for pancreatic cancer pain (PCP) have been proposed over the last 30 yr to improve success rates, avoid complications and enhance diagnostic accuracy. The aim of this prospective, randomized study was to assess the efficacy and morbidity of three posterior percutaneous NCPB techniques in 61 patients with PCP. The 61 patients were randomly allocated to three NCPB treatment groups: group 1 (20 patients, transaortic plexus block); group 2 (20 patients, classic retrocrural block); and group 3 (21 patients, bilateral chemical splanchnicectomy). The quality and quantity of pain were analyzed before and after NCPB. No statistically significant differences (P greater than 0.05) were found among the three techniques in terms of either immediate or up-to-death results. Operative mortality was nil with the three techniques and morbidity negligible. NCPB abolished celiac PCP in 70-80% of patients immediately after the block and in 60-75% until death. Because celiac pain was only a component of PCP in all patients, especially in those with a longer time course until death: 1) abolition of such pain did not ensure high percentages of complete pain relief (immediate pain relief in 40-52%; pain relief until death in 10-24%); 2) NCPB was effective in controlling PCP in a higher percentage of cases if performed early after pain onset, when the pain was still only or mainly of celiac type and responded well to nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drug therapy; and 3) the probability of patients remaining completely pain-free diminished with increased survival time.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #13  
Ñòàðûé 12.10.2005, 01:22
Gallen Gallen âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.07.2002
Ãîðîä: UA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 6,085
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 568 ðàç(à) çà 534 ñîîáùåíèé
Gallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGallen ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Åù¸ ïðåäëàãàëè áëîêàäó êðóãëîé ñâÿçêè ïå÷åíè. ß òîëüêî íà òðóïå îòâàæèëñÿ çåë¸íêîé ïîïðîáîâàòü - 400 ìë ââ¸ë, à ïðîêðàøèâàíèå òîëüêî äî ïå÷åíè (âîðîò) è ÷óòü-÷óòü ìàëîãî ñàëüíèêà äîøëî... Çàòî âîçëå ïóïêà "áëÿìáà" ïîëó÷èëàñü...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #14  
Ñòàðûé 12.10.2005, 14:59
Àâàòàð äëÿ empiric
empiric empiric âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 30.03.2005
Ãîðîä: ã.Âîðîíåæ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 503
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 41
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 3 ðàç(à) çà 2 ñîîáùåíèé
empiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåempiric ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò pandoc
Óâàæàåìûé Ýìïèðèê!Åñëè Âàøè êàôåäðàëüíûå äåëàþò ïàðàíåôðàëüíûå áëîêàäû ïðè áîëÿõ â ïîäæåëóäî÷íîé æåëåçå,òî ó íèõ äîâîëüíî õðåíîâî îáñòîÿò äåëà ñ àíàòîìèåé è ôèçèîëîãèåé ïåðèôåðè÷åñêîé íåðâíîé ñèñòåìû
Òàê åñëè áû åù¸ ñàìè äåëàëè! À òî íàñ çàñòàâëÿþò. À ìû ÷òî ,íàøå äåëî òåëÿ÷üå Ðåêîìåíäàöèè ñâåòî÷à ìåäèöèíñêîé íàóêè â case histori åñòü, äåëàåì áëîêàäó.Íåò, íå äåëàåì.Áëàãî ñîñòîÿíèå ìåäèöèíñêîãî ñîçíàíèÿ â ãîðîäå òàêîâî,÷òî çàïèñü "àêàäåìèêà" èç íàøåé ìåä.àêàäåìèè - ëó÷øàÿ çàøèòà îò ïðîêóðîðà( è êàðèåñà ).
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #15  
Ñòàðûé 12.10.2005, 22:30
Àâàòàð äëÿ áðóêñà
áðóêñà áðóêñà âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 12.03.2005
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 3,887
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 101 ðàç(à) çà 94 ñîîáùåíèé
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