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Âåðíóòüñÿ   Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà > Ôîðóìû âðà÷åáíûõ êîíñóëüòàöèé > Àíåñòåçèîëîãèÿ è ìåäèöèíà êðèòè÷åñêèõ ñîñòîÿíèé

Àíåñòåçèîëîãèÿ è ìåäèöèíà êðèòè÷åñêèõ ñîñòîÿíèé Ôîðóìû: Àíåñòåçèîëîãèÿ, Èíòåíñèâíàÿ òåðàïèÿ â ïåäèàòðèè, Èíòåíñèâíàÿ òåðàïèÿ âçðîñëûõ, Âîïðîñû ïàöèåíòîâ.

Îòâåò
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #16  
Ñòàðûé 30.03.2010, 00:15
Vlad34 Vlad34 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 31.10.2008
Ãîðîä: Âîðîíåæ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 518 ðàç(à) çà 480 ñîîáùåíèé
Vlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
À âîò âñòðåòèëñÿ òàêîé ãàéä ïî æèäêîñòíîé ðåàíèìàöèè, ñ èíòåðåñíûìè ðåêîìåíäàöèÿìè. Âîò òàê âçÿëè è ðàññòàâèëè òî÷êè íàä ¨: [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
Öèòàòà:
RECOMMENDATIONS
• Level 1
Despite equivalent efficacy, crystalloids are the resuscitation fluids of choice given the lack of survival benefit and increased cost associated with albumin.
Albumin is contraindicated in the initial resuscitation of the traumatically injured.
Albumin should be avoided in patients with severe traumatic brain injury (Glasgow Coma Score (GCS) ≤ 8).
• Level 2
Non-protein colloids are preferred over albumin based on economic considerations.
• Level 3
Colloids may have a secondary role in patients unresponsive to crystalloids or those who cannot tolerate large-volume crystalloid resuscitation.
È äàëüøå:
Öèòàòà:
Crystalloids: Are the initial resuscitation fluid of choice for:
• Hemorrhagic shock / traumatic injury
• Septic shock
• Hepatic resection
• Thermal injury
• Cardiac surgery
• Dialysis induced hypotension
Non-protein colloids: Should be used as second-line agents in patients who do not respond to crystalloid
Albumin: Should be considered a third-line agent
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #17  
Ñòàðûé 30.03.2010, 01:02
iris_73 iris_73 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.11.2009
Ãîðîä: Ðîññèÿ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 260
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 7
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 64 ðàç(à) çà 64 ñîîáùåíèé
iris_73 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåiris_73 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò cactus1972 Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Óâàæàåìûå êîëëåãè, ìíå ñîâåðøåííî íå õîòåëîñü îòêðûâàòü äèñêóññèþ ïî ïðîáëåìå âûáîðà èíôóçèîííûõ ñðåä ïðè ëå÷åíèè øîêà...
Âîò è ìíå òàê ïîêàçàëîñü... Ãàéäû - äåëî õîðîøåå, íî èõ â âåíó íå âîëüåøü. Åñëè àäìèíèñòðàöèÿ óïîðíî íå æåëàåò îáåñïå÷èâàòü áîëüíèöó íåîáõîäèìûìè ïðåïàðàòàìè (íåîòëîæíîé ïîìîùè!), òî åäèíñòâåííûé âûõîä - áåæàòü îòòóäà êàê ìîæíî ñêîðåå. Èáî ñïàñàòü ëþäåé ìîæíî è â äðóãîé áîëüíèöå, à ðèñêîâàòü ñâîåé ñîâåñòüþ è ðåïóòàöèåé èç-çà ïîôèãèçìà ÷èíîâíèêîâ - ýòî äàæå íå àëüòðóèçì, à âîîáùå ÷òî-òî çàïðåäåëüíîå.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #18  
Ñòàðûé 30.03.2010, 05:56
Vlad34 Vlad34 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 31.10.2008
Ãîðîä: Âîðîíåæ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 518 ðàç(à) çà 480 ñîîáùåíèé
Vlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ó Âàñ òðóäíîñòè ñ ôèçðàñòâîðîì? Èëè íåäîâîëüñòâî âîîáùå? Áûëî âûäåëåíî íå÷òî ïîëåçíîå èç "ãîâîðèëüíîé òåìû". Âîçìîæíî, êîìó òî íóæíîå. Êòî òî áóäåò ÷èòàòü. Çà÷åì îïÿòü ãîâîðèëüíÿ?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #19  
Ñòàðûé 30.03.2010, 10:42
DmitryTro DmitryTro âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.01.2006
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,071
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 49
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 244 ðàç(à) çà 222 ñîîáùåíèé
DmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDmitryTro ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Vlad34 Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Çà÷åì îïÿòü ãîâîðèëüíÿ?
Ïðîøó ïðîùåíèÿ çà ãîâîðèëüíþ, íî, ê ñîæàëåíèþ, ñëåäóåò îòäàòü äîëæíîå ýôôåêòèâíîñòè ìàðêåòîëîãîâ ïðîèçâîäèòåëåé êðàõìàëîâ.
Èõ áóðíàÿ äåÿòåëüíîñòü íà ôîíå ÿçû÷åñêîé âåðû â [S]æèâóþ âîäó[/S] "äåòîêñèêàöèîííûå/ðåîëîãè÷åñêèå" ñâîéñòâà êîëëîèäîâ ïðèâåëà ê ïðàêòè÷åñêè ïîëíîé çàìåíå äåêñòðàíîâ (êñòàòè, â ÐÔ òàê è íå áûë çàðåãèñòðèðîâàí îäíîòûñÿ÷íûé äåêñòðàí) íà êðàõìàëû, ÷òî áûëî âïîëíå îáîñíîâàíî. Ïðåêðàñíî ïîíèìàþ, ÷òî íèêàêîé ìàðêåòîëîã ïî îïðåäåëåíèþ íå áóäåò ñîêðàùàòü ïîòåíöèàë ðûíêà (ï÷åëû ïðîòèâ ìåäà), è â ðåçóëüòàòå - ïðàêòè÷åñêè íèêàêèõ óïîìèíàíèé ïî-ðóññêè, ÷òî êðàõìàëû èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî âòîðàÿ ëèíèÿ òåðàïèè, êàê èòîã - óíèêàëüíàÿ óðîäëèâàÿ ñèòóàöèÿ - ðåäêàÿ èíôóçèÿ îáõîäèòñÿ áåç êðàõìàëà.
Íå ìîãó íå ïîâòîðèòüñÿ, ãîâîðÿ î ãåìîððàãè÷åñêîì øîêå - ñëåäóåò ïðèëîæèòü âñå óñèëèÿ äëÿ äîñòóïíîñòè è ðàöèîíàëüíîãî ïðèìåíåíèÿ èìåííî êîìïîíåíòîâ êðîâè, à íå ñåòîâàòü íà îãðàíè÷åíèÿ ïîñòàâîê êðàõìàëîâ (îá ýòîì ìàðêåòîëîãè ñïîñîáíû è ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíî ïîçàáîòèòüñÿ).
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #20  
Ñòàðûé 30.03.2010, 18:33
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,291
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,191 ðàç(à) çà 31,541 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ýòî íå òîëüêî âñëåäñòâèå äåÿòåëüíîñòè ìàðêåòîëîãîâ: äåêñòðàíû ñ÷èòàþòñÿ ìåíåå óäîáîâàðèìûìè êîëëîèäàìè, ñðåäè êðàõìàëîâ ìèçêîìîëåêóëÿðíûå âûãëÿäÿò íàèáîëåå ïðèåìëåìûìè...

Dextrans appear to have the most unfavourable risk/benefit ratio among the currently available synthetic colloids due to their relevant anaphylactoid potential, risk of renal failure and, particularly, their major impact on haemostasis. The effects of gelatin on kidney function are currently unclear, but potential disadvantages of gelatin include a high anaphylactoid potential and a limited volume effect compared with dextrans and HESs. Modern HES preparations have the lowest risk of anaphylactic reactions among the synthetic colloids. Older HES preparations (hetastarch, hexastarch and pentastarch) have repeatedly been reported to impair renal function and hemostasis, especially when the dose limit provided by the manufacturer is exceeded, but no such effects have been reported to date for modern tetrastarches compared with gelatin and albumin. However, no large-scale clinical studies have investigated the impact of tetrastarches on the incidence of renal failure in critically ill patients. When considering the efficacy and risk/benefit profile of synthetic colloids, modern tetrastarches appear to be most suitable for intensive care medicine, given their high volume effect, low anaphylactic potential and predictable pharmacokinetics.

Best Pract Res Clin Anaesthesiol. 2009 Jun;23(2):193-212.
Relevance of non-albumin colloids in intensive care medicine.

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
DmitryTro îäîáðèë(à): "÷òî áûëî âïîëíå îáîñíîâàíî"
__________________
Èñêðåííå,
Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #21  
Ñòàðûé 30.03.2010, 21:57
Vlad34 Vlad34 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 31.10.2008
Ãîðîä: Âîðîíåæ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 518 ðàç(à) çà 480 ñîîáùåíèé
Vlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ýòî áèòâà ãèãàíòîâ áóäåò âå÷íîé. Ñåé÷àñ ìàëî êòî îñïàðèâàåò ïðåèìóùåñòâî êðàõìàëîâ íàä äåêñòðàíàìè â êîëè÷åñòâå ïîáî÷íûõ ÿâëåíèé. Ïî ýôôåêòèâíîñòè æå è â ñòàòüå, ïðèâåäåííîé Âàäèìîì Âàëåðüåâè÷åì, â ñðàâíåíèè êðàõìàëà è äåêñòðàíà àâòîðû ññûëàþòñÿ íà ýòî èññëåäîâàíèå: [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
Öèòàòà:
We conclude, that the hypooncotic 4% HES 120 and 3% dextran 70 solutions provide the same clinical effect as 6% HES 120 solution.
Ïîòîì äåëàþò íåñêîëüêî íåîæèäàííûé âûâîä:
Öèòàòà:
fluid resuscitation with synthetic colloids may be favourable to crystalloid infusion alone in terms of pulmonary function, microcirculation and systemic inflammation
Ñ ôóíêöèåé ëåãêèõ âñå áîëåå-ìåíåå ïîíÿòíî, áîëþñ êðèñòàëëîèäîâ, ïîòåíöèàëüíàÿ ïåðåãðóçêà, âîò îíà, âòîðàÿ ëèíèÿ. Ñ îñòàëüíûì æå...
À â ñðàâíåíèè êðàõìàëîâ ìåæäó ñîáîé, ó àâòîðîâ ñòàòüè âñå îñíîâàíî íà èññëåäîâàíèÿõ ñ ñóððîãàòíûìè êîíå÷íûìè òî÷êàìè, îöåíèâàÿ îáúåì ïåðèîïåðàöèîííîé êðîâîïîòåðè è ñîîòâåòñòâåííî äåëàÿ âûâîäû î âëèÿíèè íà ãåìîñòàç.
Âñå æå âèäèìî èìååò ñìûñë ðóêîâîäñòâîâàòüñÿ îáçîðîì [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
Öèòàòà:
AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS: From this review, there is no evidence that one colloid solution is more effective or safe than any other, although the confidence intervals are wide and do not exclude clinically significant differences between colloids. Larger trials of fluid therapy are needed if clinically significant differences in mortality are to be detected or excluded.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #22  
Ñòàðûé 30.03.2010, 23:28
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,291
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,191 ðàç(à) çà 31,541 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öåëèêîì ñîãëàñåí ñ Êîêýéíîâñêèì îáçîðîì, ÍÎ! íà ñåãîäíÿøíèé äåíü íå âåäåòñÿ íè îäíîãî òðàéëà, ñðàâíèâàþùåãî êîëëîèäû ìåæ ñîáîé, òîëüêî ñ êðèñòàëëîèäàìè:

Completed Saline Solution Versus Voluven®: A Controlled Study of Fluid Resuscitation in Severe Sepsis Condition: Sepsis
Interventions: Drug: Resuscitation (Voluven); Drug: Resuscitation (Saline)

Completed Colloids in Severe Trauma Conditions: Abdominal Hypertension; Abdominal Compartment Syndrome; Severe Trauma
Intervention: Drug: tetrastarch (Voluven)

Not yet recruiting Crystalloid Versus Hydroxyethyl Starch Trials Condition: Intensive Care
Interventions: Drug: 6% Hydroxy-ethyl starch (130/0.4); Drug: Saline

Recruiting Crystalloids vs. Colloids During Surgery Conditions: Fluid Therapy; Morbidity
Interventions: Drug: Lactated Ringer's Solution; Drug: Hydroxyethylstarch 6% 130/0.4
__________________
Èñêðåííå,
Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #23  
Ñòàðûé 31.03.2010, 13:06
zubarew
Ãîñòü
 
Ñîîáùåíèé: n/a
Õîòÿ ÿ ðàíåå íåîäíîêðàòíî ëîìàë êîïüÿ â ñïîðå ñ îïïîíåíòàìè (íà ïàðàëëåëüíûõ ôîðóìàõ), âûñòóïàÿ çà ìàêñèìàëüíî ðåñòðèêòèâíîå èñïîëüçîâàíèå àëüáóìèíà è èñêóññòâåííûõ êîëëîèäîâ ó êðèòè÷åñêèõ áîëüíûõ, íåäàâíî ïîïàëèñü ìíå ïàðó èíòåðåñíûõ ñòàòåé, â êîòîðûõ ïîêàçàí ïîçèòèâíûé ýôôåêò îíûõ ñóáñòàíöèé, ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ êðèñòàëëîèäàìè ó íåêîòîðûõ ïîïóëÿöèé áîëüíûõ. Õî÷ó èõ çäåñü ïðîöèòèðîâàòü:

Albumin Administration Improves Organ Function In Critically Ill Hypoalbuminemic Patients: A Prospective, Randomized, Controlled, Pilot study

Marc-Jacques Dubois, Carlos Orellana-Jimenez, Christian Melot, et al.
Crit Care Med. 2006;34(10):2536-2540


Abstract

Objective: To test the hypothesis that administration of albumin to correct hypoalbuminemia might have beneficial effects on organ function in a mixed population of critically ill patients.
Design: Prospective, controlled, randomized study.
Setting: Thirty-one-bed, mixed medicosurgical department of intensive care.
Patients: All adult patients with a serum albumin concentration =30 g/L were assessed for eligibility. Principal exclusion criteria were expected length of stay <72 hrs, life expectancy <3 months or a do-not-resuscitate order, albumin administration in the preceding 24 hrs, or evidence of fluid overload.
Interventions: The 100 patients were randomized to receive 300 mL of 20% albumin solution on the first day, then 200 mL/day provided their serum albumin concentration was <31 g/dL (albumin group), or to receive no albumin (control group).
Measurements and Main Results: The primary outcome was the effect of albumin administration on organ function as assessed by a delta Sequential Organ Failure Assessment score from day 1 to day 7 (or the day of intensive care discharge or death, whichever came first). The two groups of 50 patients were comparable at baseline for age, gender, albumin concentration, and Acute Physiology and Chronic Health Evaluation II score. Albumin concentration did not change over time in the control group but increased consistently in the albumin group (p < .001). Organ function improved more in the albumin than in the control group (p = .026), mainly due to a difference in respiratory, cardiovascular, and central nervous system components of the Sequential Organ Failure Assessment score. Diuretic use was identical in both groups, but mean fluid gain was almost three times higher in the control group (1679 ± 1156 vs. 658 ± 1101 mL, p = .04). Median daily calorie intake was higher in the albumin than in the control group (1122 [935-1158] vs. 760 [571-1077] kcal, p = .05).

Conclusions: Albumin administration may improve organ function in hypoalbuminemic critically ill patients. It results in a less positive fluid balance and a better tolerance to enteral feeding.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/551283


*************


Effects of hydroxyethyl starch resuscitation on extravascular lung water and pulmonary permeability in sepsis-related acute respiratory distress syndrome

Huang, Chung-Chi; Kao, Kuo-Chin; Hsu, Kuang-Hung; Ko, How-Wen; et al.
Critical Care Medicine: June 2009 - Volume 37 - Issue 6 - pp 1948-1955


Abstract

Objective: Hydroxyethyl starch (HES) has greater volume expansion effect and longer intravascular persistence than crystalloids. HES also decreases microvascular permeability and capillary leakage by biophysically plugging endothelial leaks, exerting an anti-inflammatory effect, and decreasing activation of endothelial cells. The aim of our study was to determine whether medium molecular weight HES (pentastarch) resuscitation in the early stage of acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) simultaneously increases cardiac output without worsening pulmonary edema and whether it attenuates pulmonary vascular permeability.
Design: Prospective observational study.
Setting: Twenty-bed medical intensive care unit of a tertiary medical center.
Patients: Twenty patients with early-stage ARDS.
Intervention: Volume expansion with a 500-mL infusion of 10% pentastarch (HES 200/0.5) at a rate of 10 mL/kg/hr.
Measurements and Main Results: Baseline hemodynamics including systemic and pulmonary artery blood pressures, central venous pressure, pulmonary artery occlusion pressure, and cardiac output were obtained from an online HP Component Monitoring System and a pulmonary artery catheter. Intrathoracic blood volume (ITBV), global end-diastolic volume, extravascular lung water (EVLW), and pulmonary vascular permeability (EVLW/ITBV) were measured with a PiCCOplus monitor. Hemodynamic measurements were repeated immediately and 2, 4, and 6 hours after volume expansion. Pentastarch loading significantly increased central venous pressure, pulmonary artery occlusion pressure, pulmonary arterial pressures, and cardiac output. Pulmonary mechanics, venous admixtures, and EVLW values remained unchanged throughout the study. EVLW/ITBV significantly decreased immediately after the pentastarch infusion.

Conclusions: In patients with early ARDS, pentastarch resuscitation significantly improved their hemodynamics and cardiac output without worsening pulmonary edema and pulmonary mechanics. It even attenuated pulmonary vascular permeability.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19384203
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #24  
Ñòàðûé 31.03.2010, 17:00
zubarew
Ãîñòü
 
Ñîîáùåíèé: n/a
Êîëëåãè, íà ýòîì ôîðóìå çàïðåùåíî ïóáëè÷íîå îáñóæäåíèå äåéñòâèé ìîäåðàòîðà è ëè÷íàÿ ïåðåïèñêà â ìåäèöèíñêèõ òåìàõ. Çà íàðóøåíèÿ âûäàþòñÿ øòðàôíûå áàëëû. Ñîîáùåíèÿ, íå èìåþùèå îòíîøåíèÿ ê îáñóæäàåìîìó òîïèêó ÿ ñêðîþ.

all we need is love äàâàéòå æèòü äðóæíî

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Max_ îäîáðèë(à): Äðóæíî íå ïîëó÷èëîñü - êîëëåãó óæå çàáàíèëè
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #25  
Ñòàðûé 31.03.2010, 17:14
iris_73 iris_73 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.11.2009
Ãîðîä: Ðîññèÿ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 260
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 7
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 64 ðàç(à) çà 64 ñîîáùåíèé
iris_73 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåiris_73 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò zubarew Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Êîëëåãè, íà ýòîì ôîðóìå çàïðåùåíî ïóáëè÷íîå îáñóæäåíèå äåéñòâèé ìîäåðàòîðà è ëè÷íàÿ ïåðåïèñêà â ìåäèöèíñêèõ òåìàõ. Çà íàðóøåíèÿ âûäàþòñÿ øòðàôíûå áàëëû. Ñîîáùåíèÿ, íå èìåþùèå îòíîøåíèÿ ê îáñóæäàåìîìó òîïèêó ÿ ñêðîþ.

all we need is love äàâàéòå æèòü äðóæíî
Äà ðàäè Áîãà! Òîëüêî íà÷èíàéòå, ïîæàëóéñòà, ïîðàíüøå. ß âîîáùå íèêîãî íå òðîãàþ, îòâå÷àþ òîëüêî ïî ñóùåñòâó è òîëüêî àâòîðàì òåìû. ×òî ìíå òåïåðü, ìîë÷à òåðïåòü âñå ýòè íàñêîêè? Òî ôëåáîëîã ìèìîõîäÿùèé âëåïèë øòðàôíûå áàëëû "çà ôëóä" (êðóïíûé ñïåöèàëèñò â èíôóçèîííîé òåðàïèè!), òî Âëàä áåç êîíöà çàäèðàåòñÿ, õîòÿ ó ñàìîãî åäâà ÷åòâåðòü ñîîáùåíèé íåñóò êàêóþ-òî ïîëåçíóþ èíôîðìàöèþ, äà è òî ñïëîøíûå ãàéäû... Ñîáññíî, åñëè ýòî èìåííî ÿ íàðóøàþ õðóïêîå ðàâíîâåñèå ôîðóìà, òî ìîãó è óäàëèòüñÿ îòñþäà ïî ïåðâîìó òðåáîâàíèþ. Âàøå ñëîâî - çàêîí, à Èíòåðíåò áîëüøîé...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #26  
Ñòàðûé 31.03.2010, 17:23
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,291
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,191 ðàç(à) çà 31,541 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Óâàæàåìûé Àëåêñàíäð Ñåðãååâè÷,

Ñïàñèáî çà ññûëêè, ïî ïåðâîé ñòàòüå ìîãó òåîðåòè÷åñêè ïðåäïîëîæèòü, ÷òî ïîääåðæàíèå ìèíèìàëüíîãî îíêîòè÷åñêîãî äàâëåíèÿ è/èëè àëüáóìèíåìèè âñå æå èìååò ñâîè ïðåèìóùåñòâà (òàê æå êàê ïîääåðæàíèå ýëåêòðîëèòíîãî/èîííîãî ñîñòàâà, ðÍ êðîâè, ãåìîãëîáèíåìèè). Ãîðàçäî áîëåå èíòåðåñíûì áûëî áû óâèäåòü âêëþ÷åíèå â ýòî èññëåäîâàíèå è ãðóóïïû ïàöèåíòîâ ñ íîðìàëüíûì àëüáóìèíîì è ðàíäîìèçàöèåé...

Ïî âòîðîìó: ìÿãêèå òî÷êè òîæå èíòåðåñíû, íî âñå æåëàþò çíàòü, à ÷òî æå â èñõîäå? òàê ÷òî ïîäîæäåì ðåçóëüòàòîâ óæå çàâåðøåííîãî: Colloids in Severe Trauma (CIST) - This study will serve as a pilot to test the hypothesis that there will be significant differences in clinical outcomes for patients with severe trauma treated with colloid (HES) plus crystalloid and crystalloid only fluid management regimens, most notably the incidence of IAH and ACS.

Ïîõîæå, ïîëó÷èòñÿ ñüåçäèòü íà åæåãîäíóþ øîêîâóþ êîíôó â Øòàòàõ, ÷òî áóäåò â Ïîðòëàíäå â èþíå, áûòü ìîæåò òàì äîëîæàò î ðåçóëüòàòàõ...
__________________
Èñêðåííå,
Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #27  
Ñòàðûé 31.03.2010, 17:50
Vlad34 Vlad34 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 31.10.2008
Ãîðîä: Âîðîíåæ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 518 ðàç(à) çà 480 ñîîáùåíèé
Vlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Îòêðîâåííî, ñòàòüÿ Albumin Improves Organ Function In Critically Ill Hypoalbuminemic Patients ÷åì òî íàïîìíèëà [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
Ãèïîàëüáóìèíåìèÿ íå åñòü õîðîøî, è èíôóçèÿ àëüáóìèíà, ïîâûøàÿ åãî óðîâåíü óëó÷øàåò ñîñòîÿíèå. ×åãî õîòåëè äîêàçàòü íå ÿñíî.
À âîò Effects of hydroxyethyl starch resuscitation on extravascular lung water and pulmonary permeability in sepsis-related acute respiratory distress syndrome - îñòàâèëà ñòðàííîå âïå÷àòëåíèå.
Âðîäå âñå ïðàâèëüíî, è ýôôåêò îæèäàåìûé ñ òî÷êè çðåíèÿ ïàòîôèçèîëîãèè, íî òîëüêî ðàñõîäèòñÿ ýòî ñ ìíåíèåì âûñêàçàííûì ÷óòü ðàíåå, íà òîé æå ãðóïïå áîëüíûõ (ñåïñèñ), ãäå è áîëüíûõ áûëî ïîáîëüøå è íàáëþäàëèñü îíè ïîäîëüøå: [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
Âòîðàÿ ÷àñòü èññëåäîâàíèÿ êàê ðàç è ïîñâÿùàëàñü ñðàâíåíèþ ïåíòàñòàð÷à ñ Ðèíãåð-ëàêòàòîì.
Öèòàòà:
The rate of death at 28 days did not differ significantly between the HES group and the Ringer's lactate group (26.7% and 24.1%, respectively; P=0.48). However, there was a trend toward a rate of death at 90 days that was higher in the HES group than in the Ringer's lactate group (41.0% vs. 33.9%, P=0.09)...
HES group had a significantly higher rate of acute renal failure (34.9% vs. 22.8%, P=0.002) and more days on which renal-replacement therapy was required (650 of 3554 vs. 321 of 3471 total days; 18.3% vs. 9.2%). Patients in the HES group had a lower median platelet count (179,600 per cubic millimeter; interquartile range, 122,000 to 260,000) than did those in the Ringer's lactate group (224,000 per cubic millimeter; interquartile range, 149,800 to 314,800; P<0.001) and received more units of packed red cells than did patients in the Ringer's lactate group
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #28  
Ñòàðûé 31.03.2010, 21:26
zubarew
Ãîñòü
 
Ñîîáùåíèé: n/a
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Vlad34 Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Ãèïîàëüáóìèíåìèÿ íå åñòü õîðîøî, è èíôóçèÿ àëüáóìèíà, ïîâûøàÿ åãî óðîâåíü óëó÷øàåò ñîñòîÿíèå. ×åãî õîòåëè äîêàçàòü íå ÿñíî.
Âîïðîñ â òîì, ÷òî èìåííî ñ÷èòàòü ãèïîàëüáóìèíåìèíåìèåé (ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå, òðåáóþùåé êîððåêöèè) - áóäåò ëè ýòî àëüáóìèí 25 ã/ë èëè 15 ã/ë èëè åùå ìåíüøå.

Äâà êðóïíûõ ìåòààíàëèçà ïî àëüáóìèíó, â 90-õ ïîêàçàëè ïîâûøåíèå ñìåðòíîñòè ïðè èñïîëüçîâàíèè îíîãî ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ êðèñòàëëîèäàìè â îáùåé ïîïóëÿöèè êðèòè÷åñêèõ áîëüíûõ.  îäíîì, íàñêîëüêî ÿ ïîìíþ, óêàçûâàëîñü, ÷òî òîëüêî ôàêò èíôóçèè àëüáóìèíà ìîæåò âûçûâàòü 5 äîïîëíèòåëüíûõ ñìåðòåé íà 100 ïàöèåíòîâ, ó êîòîðûõ îíà èñïîëüçîâàëàñü. Ýòî ïîðîäèëî ðàäèêàëüíóþ êîíöåïöèþ "No more albumin !".  äàëüíåéøåì êðóïíîå èññëåäîâàíèå SAFE ïîêàçàëî ðàâíóþ ýôôåêòèâíîñòü èíôóçèè àëüáóìèíà (â îòíîøåíèè êîíå÷íûõ òî÷åê), ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ êðèñòàëëîèäàìè ("à åñëè íåò ðàçíèöû, çà÷åì ïëàòèòü áîëüøå ?" (ñ)). Åäèíñòâåííàÿ ñóáïîïóëÿöèÿ ó êîòîðîé àëüáóìèí â ýòîì èññëåäîâàíèè ïðèâîäèë ê ñòàòèñòè÷åñêè çíà÷èìîìó ïîâûøåíèþ ëåòàëüíîñòè - áîëüíûå ñ òÿæåëîé ×ÌÒ.

Ïðîáëåìà â òîì, ÷òî îñíîâíàÿ ïðè÷èíà ãèïîàëüáóìèíåìèè ó ïàöèåíòîâ ñ êðèòè÷åñêèìè ñîñòîÿíèÿìè - êàïèëëÿðíàÿ óòå÷êà (capillary leak) è äîïîëíèòåëüíî ââåäåííûé àëüáóìèí òàêæå óéäåò â èíòåðñòèöèé, óâëåêàÿ çà ñîáîé âîäó, ÷òî ïðèâåäåò, â ÷àñòíîñòè ê óõóäøåíèþ ðåñïèðàòîðíîé ôóíêöèè.

 êà÷åñòâå èëëþñòðàöèè - êàðòèíêè, êîòîðûå Ëåîíèä íåêîòîðîå âðåìÿ íàçàä ïîñòèë íà ðóñàíåñòå. Ýëåêòðîííàÿ ìèêðîôîòîãðàôèÿ íîðìàëüíîãî ñîåäèíåíèÿ ýíäîòåëèàëüíûõ êëåòîê:

[Èçîáðàæåíèÿ äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì]

×åðåç ÷àñ ïîñëå ââåäåíèÿ ñóáñòàíöèè P:

[Èçîáðàæåíèÿ äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì]

McDonald DM, Thurston G, Baluk P.Endothelial gaps as sites for plasma leakage in inflammation. Microcirculation 1999; 6:7-22

Àëüáóìèí è äàæå áîëåå êðóïíûå ìîëåêêóëû óëåòàþò ñî "ñâèñòîì". Òàê ÷òî âîïðîñ î÷åíü íåîäíîçíà÷íûûé è èññëåäîâàíèå, êîòîðîå ïîêàçàëî ïîçèòèâíûé ýôôåêò àëüáóìèíà íà êîíå÷íûå òî÷êè ó êðèòè÷åñêèõ áîëüíûõ íà ýòîì îáùåì ôîíå ñìîòðèòñÿ âåñüìà óäèâèòåëüíî.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #29  
Ñòàðûé 31.03.2010, 21:38
Vlad34 Vlad34 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 31.10.2008
Ãîðîä: Âîðîíåæ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 518 ðàç(à) çà 480 ñîîáùåíèé
Vlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåVlad34 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò zubarew Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Àëüáóìèí è äàæå áîëåå êðóïíûå ìîëåêêóëû óëåòàþò ñî "ñâèñòîì". Òàê ÷òî âîïðîñ î÷åíü íåîäíîçíà÷íûûé è èññëåäîâàíèå, êîòîðîå ïîêàçàëî ïîçèòèâíûé ýôôåêò àëüáóìèíà íà êîíå÷íûå òî÷êè ó êðèòè÷åñêèõ áîëüíûõ íà ýòîì îáùåì ñìîòðèòñÿ âåñüìà èíòðèãóþùå.
À ìîæåò áûòü äåëî â àêêóðàòíîì âûáîðå ïàöèåíòîâ? ×òî òàêîå "êàïèëëÿðíàÿ óòå÷êà"? Âñåãäà ëè îíà?  êàêîé ñòåïåíè? Åñòü ýëåìåíò ðàññóæäåíèÿ ÈÌÕÎ. À êàê åå ìîæíî çàïîäîçðèòü êëèíè÷åñêè? Ïðåäïîëîæó, ÷òî íàëè÷èåì âíåñîñóäèñòîé ãèïåðãèäðàòàöèè. À ÷òî ïîäðçóìåâàëîñü ïîä ñëîâàìè Fluid overload â êðèòåðèÿõ èñêëþ÷åíèÿ? Íå òóò ëè ñîáàêà ïîðûëàñü?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #30  
Ñòàðûé 31.03.2010, 21:42
zubarew
Ãîñòü
 
Ñîîáùåíèé: n/a
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Vlad34 Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
À ìîæåò áûòü äåëî â àêêóðàòíîì âûáîðå ïàöèåíòîâ? ×òî òàêîå "êàïèëëÿðíàÿ óòå÷êà"? Âñåãäà ëè îíà?  êàêîé ñòåïåíè? Åñòü ýëåìåíò ðàññóæäåíèÿ ÈÌÕÎ. À êàê åå ìîæíî çàïîäîçðèòü êëèíè÷åñêè? Ïðåäïîëîæó, ÷òî íàëè÷èåì âíåñîñóäèñòîé ãèïåðãèäðàòàöèè. À ÷òî ïîäðçóìåâàëîñü ïîä ñëîâàìè Fluid overload â êðèòåðèÿõ èñêëþ÷åíèÿ? Íå òóò ëè ñîáàêà ïîðûëàñü?
 îáùåì, ÿ ýòî ê òîìó, ÷òî èíôóçèÿ àëüáóìèíà ýòî íå òàêîé îäíîçíà÷íûé âîïðîñ, êàê ïðûæêè ñ ïàðàøþòîì è áåç.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
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