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Âåðíóòüñÿ   Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà > Ôîðóìû âðà÷åáíûõ êîíñóëüòàöèé > Àêóøåðñòâî è ãèíåêîëîãèÿ > Êëèìàêñ

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Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 06.05.2003, 12:23
OPL OPL âíå ôîðóìà
Ñåðôåð
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 06.05.2003
Ñîîáùåíèé: 2
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Ìåíîïàóçà è îñòåîïîðîç

Äîáðûé äåíü. Ó ìåíÿ ìåíîïàóçà, è íåäàâíî ïðè îáñëåäîâàíèè îáíàðóæèëè îñòåîïîðîç. ß áû õîòåëà óçíàòü, êàêîé ïðåïàðàò (ìàêñèìàëüíî íàòóðàëüíûé, âîçìîæíî èç çàìåñòèòåëüíîé ãîðìîíàëüíîé òåïàðèè, íå ïèùåâóþ äîáàâêó) ëó÷øå ïðèìåíÿòü. Ñïàñèáî çàðàíåå.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 06.05.2003, 13:29
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko íà ôîðóìå
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,265
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,619 ðàç(à) çà 32,693 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Äëÿ ëå÷åíèÿ îñòåîïîðîçà äî ïîñëåäíåãî âðåìåíè çîëîòûì ñòàíäàðòîì ñ÷èòàëîñü èñïîëüçîâàíèå ÇÃÒ . Ê ÷èñëó "ìàêñèìàëüíî íàòóðàëüíûõ" , èñïîëüçóÿ Âàøó òåðìèíîëîãèþ , ñëåäóåò îòíåñòè ôåìîñòîí è ôåìîñòîí 1\5 .
Íî âñÿ ïðîáëåìà íå â" ìàêñèìàëüíîé íàòóðàëüíîñòè" , à â ËÅ×ÅÍÈÈ êîíêðåòíîãî çàáîëåâàíèÿ ó êîíêðåòíîãî ÷åëîâåêà .
Ïîýòîìó ÂÀøåìó âðà÷ó è Âàì ïðåäñòîèò âçâåñèòü âñå çà è ïðîòèâ ÇÃÒ ÈÌÅÍÍÎ ó ÂÀÑ , à íå â öåëîì ó ÷åëîâå÷åñòâà , îáñóäèòü ïðåïàðàò ÇÃÒ è ôîðìó åãî ââtäåíèÿ â îïòèìàëüíîì ÈÌÅÍÎ Ó ÂÀÑ ( ëèïèäû , âîçðàñò , ëèáèäî . äðóãèå çàáîëåâàíèÿ , äðóãèå ïðîÿâëåíèÿ ìåíîïàóçàëüíîãî ñèíäðîìà ).
Åñëè ÇÃÒ ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíà , ñëåäóåò ðàññìîòðåòü äðóãèå âàðèàíòû ëå÷åíèÿ - áèñôîñôîíàòû , ìèàêàëüöèê , â êîíöå -êîíöîâ SERM ( ýòîò òåêñò óæå äëÿ ÂÀøåãî âðà÷à ) .
Åñëè Âû õîòèòå ïîëó÷èòü äîñòàòî÷íî îáúåìíóþ èíôîðìàöèþ , æåëàòåëüíî ïðîäóìàòü âîçìîæíîñòü êîíñóëüòàöèè ó ñïåóööèàëèñòîâ ïî ëå÷åíèþ îñòåîïîðîçà - â ÷àñòíîñòè , àâòîðèòåòíûì ñïåöèàëèñòîì ÿâëÿåòñÿ ä.ì.í. Ë.ß ÐÎæèíñêàÿ - www .endocrincentr.ru
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 05.06.2003, 16:42
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,387
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,230 ðàç(à) çà 31,580 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Òàêæå íåïëîõî áûëî áû ïîïîëíèòü ðàöèîí ñîåâûìè ïðîäóêòàìè, óâåëè÷èòü ñóòî÷íîå ïîòðåáëåíèå êàëüöèÿ äî 1,5 ã, âèòàìèíà Ä3 800 ÅÄ è ôòîðèäîâ (25 ìã ôòîðèäà íàòðèÿ).
À òàêæå âîçäåðæàòüñÿ îò çëîóïîòðåáëåíèÿ êîôå, ïîâàðåííîé ñîëüþ. Âñå ðåêîìåíäàöèè íîñÿò ïðîôèëàêòè÷åñêèé õàðàêòåð.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 05.06.2003, 16:48
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko íà ôîðóìå
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,265
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,619 ðàç(à) çà 32,693 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Óâàæàåìûé äîêòîð Âàä !
Íàçíà÷åíèå ÔÒÎÐÈÄΠ- î÷åíü è î÷åíü íåïðîñòàÿ ñèòóàöèÿ , è ñëåäóåò äåñÿòü ðàç ïîäóìàòü , ïðåæäå ÷åì çàî÷íî äàâàòü ïîäîáíóþ êîíñóëüòàöèþ .
Ïðèåì æå áèñôîñôîíàòîâ , ìèàêàëüöèêà è SERM -îâ ÎÁßÇÀÒÅËÜÍÎ ñîïðîâîæäàåòñÿ íàçíà÷åíèåì ïðåïàðàòîâ êàëüöèÿ è âèòàìèíà Ä .
Áåç ýòèõ ïðåïàðàòîâ èñïîëüçîâàíèå ñîáñòâåííî ïðåïàðàîâ êàëüöèÿ è âèòàìèíà Ä , ïðè âñåé ìîåé ëþáâè ê íèì , ñêîðåå îòíîñèòñÿ ê ñôåðå ïðîôèëàêòèêè îñòåîïîðîçà , ÷åì ê ñôåðå ëå÷åíèÿ.
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 05.06.2003, 17:56
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,387
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,230 ðàç(à) çà 31,580 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Âïîëíå ñ Âàìè ñîãëàñåí, Ãàëèíà Àôàíàñüåâíà, ÷òî áèôîñôîíàòû è ðàëîêñèôåí - ýòî ëó÷øåå íà íûíåøíèé ìîìåíò â ëå÷åíèè ìåíîïàóçàëüíîãî îñòåîïîðîçà, íî íàñêîëüêî îíè ïî êàðìàíó?
Ôòîðèäû õîòÿ è íå ðåêîìåíäóþòñÿ ïðèìåíÿòü â ëå÷åíèè, íî áûëî ïîêàçàíî, ÷òî èìåþò îïðåäåëåííóþ ýôôåêòèâíîñòü ïðè âåäåíèè ïàöèåíòîâ:
Arch Intern Med 2001 Oct 22;161(19):2325-33
Sustained-release sodium fluoride in the treatment of the elderly with established osteoporosis.
Rubin CD, Pak CY, Adams-Huet B, Genant HK, Li J, Rao DS.
Geriatrics Section, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, 5323 Harry Hines Blvd, Dallas, TX 75390-8889, USA. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
BACKGROUND: We ascertained the safety and efficacy of fluoride in augmenting spinal bone mass and reducing spinal fractures in older women with established osteoporosis. We compared a combination of sustained-release sodium fluoride, calcium citrate, and cholecalciferol (SR-NaF group) with calcium and cholecalciferol alone (control group). METHODS: Eighty-five ambulatory women aged 65 years or older with 1 or more nontraumatic vertebral compression fractures were enrolled in a 42-month randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Primary outcome measures were vertebral fracture rate, bone mass, and safety. RESULTS: The vertebral fracture rate determined by means of computer assistance in the SR-NaF group was significantly lower than that in the control group (relative risk [RR], 0.32; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.14-0.73; P =.007). Results of visual adjudicated inspection also confirmed a significant reduction in fracture rate (RR, 0.40; 95% CI, 0.17-0.95; P =.04). Bone mineral density in L2 through L4 increased significantly from baseline in the SR-NaF group by 5.4% (95% CI, 2.7%-8.2%; P<.001), and by 3.2% in the control group (95% CI, 0.8%-5.6%; P =.01). The between-group differences in bone mineral density were not significant. The femoral neck and total hip bone mineral density remained stable in the SR-NaF group and was not significantly different from that of the control group. There were no significant differences in adverse effects between groups. CONCLUSION: The SR-NaF group significantly decreased the risk for vertebral fractures and increased spinal bone mass without reducing bone mass at the femoral neck and total hip.

Osteoporos Int 2003 Jan;14(1):2-12
A comprehensive review of treatments for postmenopausal osteoporosis.
Hauselmann HJ, Rizzoli R.
Center for Rheumatology and Bone Diseases, Klinik im Park, Zurich, Switzerland.
The aim of this review is to assess the efficacy of treatments for postmenopausal osteoporosis in women with low bone mass or with an existing vertebral fracture. We searched the literature for studies (randomized, double-masked, placebo-controlled and prospective) that reported on drugs registered in Europe or North America. We included 41 reports on 12 agents. To assess the consistency among the studies for each drug, we plotted the percent change in bone mineral density (BMD) for the control group against the percent change in BMD for the treated group for lumbar spine and femoral neck. We used methods of cluster analysis to determine consistency among the studies. For each agent we summarized the relative risk for vertebral fracture (patients with new fracture) and for hip fractures. The duration of the studies ranged from 1 to 4.3 years. The proportion of patients who discontinued treatment ranged from 4% to 80%. Most of the studies reported on change in BMD. Twenty-six studies (10 drugs) provided data on new vertebral fractures and 12 (6 drugs) on hip fractures. Apart from fluoride effects on spine BMD, increases in BMD with bisphosphonates were greater than those seen with the remaining treatments. Generally, for each agent the changes in BMD (relative to placebo) were consistent among the studies. The exceptions were calcitriol and calcitonin for changes in BMD of the spine and of the femoral neck. Alendronate, calcitonin, risedronate and raloxifene caused significant reductions in the risk of vertebral fractures. Alendronate, risedronate or the combination of calcium plus vitamin D had a significant effect on the risk of hip fracture. Most therapies are effective in increasing BMD; some decrease the risk of vertebral fracture. For hip fracture, alendronate and risedronate reduce the risk in women with osteoporosis, and calcium and vitamin D reduce the risk in institutionalized patients.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 05.06.2003, 19:11
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko íà ôîðóìå
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,265
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,619 ðàç(à) çà 32,693 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Âû ëè÷íî óìååòå ëå÷èòü ôòîðèäàìè ?
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 07.06.2003, 17:20
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,387
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,230 ðàç(à) çà 31,580 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Äàæå â ãëàçà ïðåïàðàòû ñî ôòîðîì íå âèäåë.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 07.06.2003, 18:17
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko íà ôîðóìå
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,265
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,619 ðàç(à) çà 32,693 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
ÒÎãäà äàâàéòå îáñóäèì , â ÷åì ñìûñë íàøèõ ðàçãîâîðîâ ñ áîëüíûìè - õîòÿ áû íà ïðèìåðå äàííîé äèñêóññèè .
Âîïðîñ ïàöèåíòêè áûë âïîëíå êîíêðåòåí - ìåíîïàóçà , äèàãíîñòèðîâàí îñòåîïîðîç . Ïðåïàðàò âûáîðà èç ãðóïïû ÇÃÒ ( òðåáîâàíèå ïàöèåíòêè - ìàêñèìàëüíî " íàòóðàëüíûé " .
Îòâåò ÂÀøåé ïîêîðíîé ñëóãè ( â ïîëíîì ñîîòâåòñòâèè ñ ìíåíèåì öåëîãî ðÿäà àññîöèàöèé ïî ìåíîïàóçå + åæåäíåâíàÿ ìîÿ è ìîèõ êîëëåã ðàáîòà )- Äà , ÇÃÒ -" çîëîòîé" ñòàíäàðò .
Òå æå àññîöèàöèè òðåáóþò îò íàñ ïîñëå çàâåðøåíèÿ èññëåäîâàíèé WHI çíàêîìèòü ïàöèåíòîâ , ñ òåì , ÷òî , åñëè ïîêàçàíèå åäèíñòâåííîå - îñòåîïîðîç , òî åñòü àëüòåðíàòèâû ( îíè ïåðå÷èñëåíû ÂÀøåé ïîêîðíîé ñëóãîé ) .
Êàëüöèé è âèòàìèí Ä íå ïåðå÷èñëÿþòñÿ ( ýòî äîïîëíåíèÿ ê ëþáîìó èç ïåðå÷èñëåííûõ ìåòîäîâ ëå÷åíèÿ ÎÑÒÅÎÏÎÐÎÇÀ , õîòÿ èìåþò ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíîå çíà÷åíèå ïðè îñòåîïåíèè è ïðè íîðìàëüíîé ÌÏÊ êàê ïðîôèëàêòèêà ).
Ôòîðèäû ÍÅ ÂÕÎÄßÒ â ÷èñëî ýòèõ àëüòåðíàòèâ - äåëî â òîì , ÷òî ïðåïàðàòû êàïðèçíû , òðåáóåòñÿ ÎÁßÇÀÒÅËÜÍÎÅ èñêëþ÷åíèå îñòåîìàëÿöèè ( äàëåêî íå âñåãäà ýòî ïðîñòî ) , è , óâåëè÷èâàÿ ÌÏÊ , ÎÍÈ ÍÅ ÓÌÅÍÜØÀÞÒ ( ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûå , ïðîñïåêòèâíûå ) ðèñê ïåðåëîìîâ .
ÊÀê ïèøåò Ë.ÐÎæèíñêàÿ ( öèò. ïî ïàìÿòè - òðåáóþòñÿ äîñòàòî÷íî ãëóáîêèå çíàíèÿ âðà÷à ïî ïðîáëåìå îñòåîïîðîçà , è äîñòàòî÷íîå òåðïåíèå ïàöèåíòà , ÷òîáû âûáðàòü ýòî ëå÷åííèå ) .
ÂÀøà ïîêîðíàÿ ñëóãà íè ðàçó íå íàçíà÷àëà ôòîðèäû , õîòÿ âñå îñòàëüíûå ( â òîì ÷èñëå è ðàëîêñèôåí ) èñïîëüçîâàëà .
Ò.å , âûáèðàÿ äàæå èíòåðíåò - êîíñóëüòàöèè , ìû äîëæíû ñòðåìèòüñÿ ê òîìó , ÷òîáû íàøè îòâåòû ñîòâåñòâîâàëè è ìåæäóíàðîäíîìó îïûòó , è íàøåìó îïûòó , è âðÿä ëè óìåñòíî ñîâåòîâàòü òî , ÷åì òû ñàì íèêîãäà íèêîãî íå ëå÷èë ( åñòü æå êàêàÿ -òî íà ýòî ïðè÷èíà ).
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #9  
Ñòàðûé 10.06.2003, 10:35
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,387
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,230 ðàç(à) çà 31,580 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
åùå ðàç ñïàñèáî çà íàóêó, ôòîðèäû êàê è íåêîòîðûå äð. ïðåïàðàòû ó íàñ áîëüøàÿ ðåäêîñòü (íàâåðíîå íå çàêóïàþò èççà îòñóòñòâèÿ ñïðîñà),ïîýòîìó è íå äîâåëîñü èõ ïîëüçîâàòü, ïî äîëãó ñëóæáû âñòðå÷àþñü ëèøü îíêîèíäóöèðîâàííûìè îñòåîïîðîçàìè, ïîýòîìó äàæå áèôîñôîíàòû ïåðâîãî ïîêîëåíèÿ íå ïðèìåíÿþ, à ïîñëåäóþùèå ãåíåðàöèè äîñòóïíû ëèøü åäèíèöàì,íî íå ìîÿ áåäà, ÷òî ïàöèåíòû ñåáå íå ìîãóò ìíîãîãî ïîçâîëèòü... Íàâåðíîå, Âàì íå ïðèõîäèòñÿ èíòåðåñîâàòüñÿ ó êîíñóëüòèðóåìûõ, à ÷òî îíè ñåáå ìîãóò èç ëå÷åíèÿ ïîçâîëèòü, à çäåñü âäàëè îò öåíòðà öèâèëèçàöèè ïîðîé íóæíî óõèùðèòüñÿ, äàáû ïîäîáðàòü êàêîé-òî àäåêâàòíûé êàðìàíó òèï òåðàïèè.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #10  
Ñòàðûé 10.06.2003, 12:49
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko íà ôîðóìå
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,265
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,619 ðàç(à) çà 32,693 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Áîþñü , ÷òî ìíå ïðèõîäèòñÿ èíòåðåñîâàòüñÿ âñåì - íî ãëàâíûì îáðàçîì òåì , ëå÷èì ìû ÷åëîâåêà èëè çà íåãî ðåøàåì åãî ìàòåðèàëüíûå ïðîáëåìû .
Äàâàéòå ñ ÂÀìè îïðåäåëèìñÿ - ìû çàðàíåå çíàåì , ÷òî äåíåã íåò , ïîýòîìó ïðåäëàãàåì òî , ÷òî íåýôôåêòèâíî èëè òðåáóåò ñâåðõúåñòåñòâåííûõ äèàãíîñòè÷åñêèõ âîçìîæíîñòåé ?
Èëè äîïóñêàåì ìûñëü , ÷òî ÷åëîâåê , âûøåäøèé â è-íåò ,õî÷åò ïîëó÷èòü êîíñóëüòàöèþ íà òåìó - ÷òî äåëàòü â êîíêðåòíîé ñèòóàöèè , è ÷òî îòâåò äàåòñÿ , èñõîäÿ èç èìåþùåãîñÿ îáùå÷åëîâå÷åñêîãî îïûòà . óìíîæåííîãî íà ñîáñòâåííóþ äåÿòåëüíîñòü - â êîíöå -êîíöîâ , ìîæíî âåäü îáñóäèòü è áîëåå äåøåâûé êëèìîíîðì ( à íå èäòè ïî ëèíèè - ÷òî íàòóðàëüíåå ) äà è èç áèñôîñôîíàòîâ êñèäèôîí ñòîèò êîïåéêè .
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #11  
Ñòàðûé 12.01.2009, 09:02
Shahla Shahla âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 10.04.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,732
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 460 ðàç(à) çà 445 ñîîáùåíèé
Shahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Melnichenko Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
...Ôòîðèäû ÍÅ ÂÕÎÄßÒ â ÷èñëî ýòèõ àëüòåðíàòèâ - äåëî â òîì , ÷òî ïðåïàðàòû êàïðèçíû , òðåáóåòñÿ ÎÁßÇÀÒÅËÜÍÎÅ èñêëþ÷åíèå îñòåîìàëÿöèè ( äàëåêî íå âñåãäà ýòî ïðîñòî ) , è , óâåëè÷èâàÿ ÌÏÊ , ÎÍÈ ÍÅ ÓÌÅÍÜØÀÞÒ ( ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûå , ïðîñïåêòèâíûå ) ðèñê ïåðåëîìîâ ...
Óâàæàåìûå êîëëåãè! Çà ïðîøåäøèå 5 ëåò âíîâü âîçðîñ èíòåðåñ ê ôòîðèäàì ïðè ëå÷åíèè îñòåîïîðîçà, òåïåðü óæå íîâàÿ ôîðìóëà, ëèøåííàÿ ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ íàòðèÿ ôòîðèäà,- Sodium Monofluorophosphate MFP. Êëþ÷åâûå ñëîâà "Osteoporosis in postmenopausal women" äàëè ðÿä ðàáîò ïî MFP.
Íî âûâîä èç ýòèõ ðàáîò òîò æå: õîòÿ MFP ïîâûøàþò ïëîòíîñòü êîñòåé ïîÿñíè÷íîãî îòäåëà ïîçâîíî÷îíèêà, îíè íå ïðåäîòâðàùàþò ïåðåëîìû ïîçâîíî÷íèêà, òðåòü ïàöèåíòîâ íå îòâå÷àåò íà ëå÷åíèå, à ñðåäè ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ- the incnidence of lower extremity pain syndrome related to benign stress microfractures... was also higher in MFP 26,4 mg/day.
Åùå èç ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ- óâåëè÷èâàþò îòëîæåíèå ôòîðèäíîãî äåïîçèòà â êîñòÿõ. È ÷òî îçíà÷àåò ôðàçà Sodium MFP increases spinal bone mass in postmenopausal women without effecting normal fasting levels of ionic fluoride?

Âîïðîñ: ìîæíî ëè íà ðûíêå âîîáùå îáîéòèñü áåç ýòèõ MFP, èëè åñòü êàòåãîðèÿ áîëüíûõ, êîòîðûì îíè íåîáõîäèìû?
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Èñðàôèëîâà Øàõëà Þñèôîâíà.
Òåðàïåâò, ïóëüìîíîëîã.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #12  
Ñòàðûé 12.01.2009, 09:37
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko íà ôîðóìå
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,265
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,619 ðàç(à) çà 32,693 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ìîæåò ãäå è åñòü , íî ÿ íå çíàþ ,,. Çà÷åì íîâóþ ïüåñó ïèñàòü, ñòàðûå óæàñòü êàê õîðîøè è Ìèëî÷êå ðîëü åñòü ( ñ )
ÈËè , èíûìè ñëîâàìè , ïðè íàëè÷èè òåðèïàðàòèäà ( ÷òîá îí áûë ! ), áèñôîñôîíàòîâ è êàëüöèòîíèíà ; ïðè íàëè÷èè àêòèâíûõ ôîðì âèòàìèíà Ä è íîðìàëüíûõ ïðåïàðàòîâ êàëüöèÿ ?

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