#106
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Ðîìàí, à íàñêîëüêî ìíå, êàðäèîëîãó, íàäî ýòî çíàòü? Äî ñåãîäíÿøíåãî äíÿ ÿ ýòîãî íå çíàë è áûë ñ÷àñòëèâ â ñâîåì íåâåäåíèè. Íî åñëè íàäî, ÿ îñâîþ.
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#107
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Âîïðîñ ìîæåò ñòîÿòü è ïî äðóãîìó: ïðåæäå ÷åì ó÷èòüñÿ ìåðÿòü ãåìîäèíàìè÷åñêèå ïàðàìåòðû ó âñåõ ïàöèåíòîâ ñ PAD, áûòü ìîæåò ðàçîáðàòüñÿ, íåñóò ëè îíè äîï. ïðîãíîñòè÷åñêóþ èíôîðìàöèþ ó íèõ? Íàïð. â ñâåòå òàêîé ïóáëèêàöèè:
Vasc Med. 2006 Nov;11(3):155-63. Limb hemodynamics are not predictive of functional capacity in patients with PAD. Szuba A, Oka RK, Harada R, Cooke JP. Division of Cardiovascular Medicine, 300 Pasteur Drive, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, CA 94305, USA. To the practicing clinician, it seems obvious that limb hemodynamics would be the primary determinant of walking distance. However, other determinants, such as skeletal muscle metabolism, may play a role. Accordingly, in the current study, we examined the relationship between measures of limb hemodynamics and walking capacity in patients with peripheral arterial disease (PAD). We measured toe and ankle pressures for calculation of toe- (TBI) and ankle (ABI)-brachial indices; basal and hyperemic calf blood flow (CBF; by plethysmography); and initial (ICT) and absolute (ACT) claudication time using the Skinner-Gardner protocol. As expected, PAD patients had impaired limb hemodynamics with reduced TBI, ABI and a reduction in ABI post-exercise. However, there was no relationship between any of the hemodynamic variables (including ABI, ABI reduction post-exercise, TBI, baseline or maximal CBF) and walking distance as assessed by ICT or ACT. A subset of PAD patients with an ACT >750s (n = 16; 'long claudicators') were compared with a subset of PAD patients with an ACT <260s (n = 16; 'short claudicators'). The average ACT in the long claudicants was over fivefold greater than the short claudicators. Surprisingly, there were no differences between the two groups in any of the hemodynamic variables. There was also no relationship between the initial ABI, TBI, toe pressure, baseline or hyperemic CBF, and the improvement in ACT over the 3-month course of the study. This study found little relationship between hemodynamic variables and functional capacity in PAD. Accordingly, to assess the response to therapeutic interventions, exercise performance and functional status need to be directly measured, and cannot be predicted from hemodynamic measurements.
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#108
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ÿ ñòåñíÿþñü ñïðîñèòü, ÷òî êðîìå
àñïèðèíà ïëàâèêñà òðåíòàëà ñòàòèíîâ öèëîñòàçîëà (íó åòî íå äëÿ íàñ) ëå÷åíèÿ ñîïóòñòâóþùåé ïàòîëîãèè õèðóðãèè ïîÿâèëîñü â ëå÷åíèè àòåðîñêëåðîòè÷åñêîãî ïîðàæåíèÿ çàäíèõ êîíå÷íîñòåé? ýòî ÿ ê ÷åìó: à êàêèå çàäà÷è áóäóò ñòàâèòüñÿ ïåðåä àíãèîòåðàïåâòìè? |
#109
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Åøå è ïðèëû:
Peripheral artery disease: potential role of ACE-inhibitor therapy [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#110
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Öèòàòà:
Ðèñêíó ïðåäïîëîæèòü, ÷òî äëÿ êàðäèîëîãîâ çàíèìàòüñÿ àäåêâàòíûìè (ñ ïîëíîé äèàãíîñòèêîé) ðóòèííûìè êîíòðîëÿìè ïàöèåíòîâ ñ PAD ïðåäñòàâëÿåòñÿ/ÿâëÿåòñÿ íåïðîñòèòåëüíîé òðàòîé ñèë è âðåìåíè (ñâîèõ ïàöèåíòîâ õâàòàåò). Ïîýòîìó íåìöû è ïîøëè ïî ïóòè ñîçäàíèÿ îòäåëüíîé òåðàïåâòè÷åñêîé ñïåöèàëèçàöèè. |
#111
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#112
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Óâàæàåìûé Ðîìàí!
×òî ðóññêîìó çäîðîâî, òî íåìöó ñìåðòü. Ïîêà ïåðåäîâîé ãåðìàíñêèé ìåòîä íå ñïåøàò âíåäðèòü, ñêàæåì, â ÑØÀ. Ïîäîæäåì, íàâåðíîå, è ìû, ïîêà äðóãèõ ïðîáëåì õâàòàåò. Íî ìû îòêðûòû äëÿ ïðåäëîæåíèé. Âîçâðàùàéòåñü è îñíîâûâàéòå íîâóþ øêîëó. ![]() |
#113
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Òàê íå îáÿçàòåëüíî æå íåìåöêîå ðåøåíèå âîïðîñà. ß âûøå ïèñàë, ÷òî, ÈÌÕÎ, ðåøåíèå çàâèñèò îò êîíêðåòíîé ìåäèöèíñêîé ñèñòåìû, ãëàâíîå îáåñïå÷èòü àäåêâàòíóþ òåðàïåâòè÷åñêóþ è äèàãíîñòè÷åñêóþ ïîääåðæêó. Òî, ÷òî PAD íåäîîöåíèâàþò, óòâåðæäàþò è àìåðèêàíöû (ñì. ìíîãî÷èñëåííûå ññûëêè îò Dr. Vad'a).
Âàðèàíò ñ àíãèîëîãèåé óäîáåí òåì, ÷òî íà àíãèîëîãîâ ìîæíî ñáðîñèòü âñþ ñîñóäèñòóþ äèàãíîñòèêó (ìû íå ãîâîðèëè åùå â ýòîé âåòêå î òðîìáîçå ãëóáîêèõ âåí, ïîñòòðîìáîòè÷åñêîì ñèíäðîìå, âàðèêîçàõ; ñìåøàííûå àðòåðèîâåíîçíûå ïîðàæåíèÿ - îòäåëüíûé âîïðîñ; äèàãíîñòèêà ýìáîëèé; ïîðàæåíèÿ âåðõíèõ êîíå÷íîñòåé (íàïðèìåð, thoracic outlet syndrom), ñîñóäèñòàÿ äèàãíîñòèêà ïðè âàñêóëèòàõ è ò.ä.). Íåäîñòàòîê òîæå î÷åâèäåí: ñîçäàíèå íîâîé ñïåöèàëüíîñòè òðåáóåò çàòðàòû ðåñóðñîâ. |
#114
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#115
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Ïðî òðåíòàë ïîïðîøó ññûëêó. Äîáàâèì ïðîñòàâàçèí, ïðèëû, ôèáðèíîëèç, âàðôàðèí, íàôòèäðîôóðèë. Ïîòîì äîáàâèì íåàòåðîñêëåðîòè÷åñêèå ïîðàæåíèÿ àðòåðèé, ïîòîì çàáîëåâàíèÿ âåíîçíîé è ëèìôàòè÷åñêèõ ñèñòåì. À ïîñëå ýòîãî äîáàâèì âñå íåîáõîäèìûå äèàãíîñòè÷åñêèå ìåòîäû, ÷òî â íåñêîëüêî ðàç óâåëè÷èò îáúåì ðàáîòû. Èíòåðâåíöèè â áîëüøèíñòâå ñòðàí òîæå, êñòàòè, âûïîëíÿþò òåðàïåâòû (íî ýòî óæå äîïîëíèòåëüíàÿ ïðîãðàììà)
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#116
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Ìèõàèë Þðüåâè÷! Ñìîòðèòå øèðå, ðàíüøå âñå áîëåçíè áûëè îò íåðâîâ, à ñåé÷àñ áîëåçíè îò ïîðàæåíèÿ ñîñóäèñòîé ñèñòåìû(àðòåðèè, âåíû è ëèìôàòè÷åñêèå ñîñóäû). Êòî ëó÷øå âñåõ òåðàïåâòîâ - ýòî êàðäèîëîãè.  ñâåòå ïîñëåäíèõ èçìåíåíèé è ïîÿâëåíèÿ íîâûõ ñïåöèàëüíîñòåé è ïî àíàëîãèè ñ ñåðäå÷íî-ñîñóäèñòîé õèðóðãèåé ïðåäëàãàþ íàçûâàòü êàðäèîëîãîâ ïî íîâîìó "êàðäèîàíãèîëîãàìè". òîãäà â èõ ñâåòëûõ ãîëîâàõ è ñèëüíûõ ðóêàõ îáúåäèíèòñÿ âñÿ äèàãíîñòèêà è ëå÷åíèå ïðàêòè÷åñêè âñåõ ïàöèåíòîâ.
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#117
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Can Med Assoc J 1996;155,1053-1059.
Management of intermittent claudication with pentoxifylline: meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials S. C. Hood, D. Moher and G. G. Barber Health Analysis and Modelling Group, Social and Economic Studies Division, Statistics Canada, Ottawa, Ont. OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the efficacy of pentoxifylline therapy in improving the walking capacity of patients with moderate intermittent claudication. DATA SOURCES: A search of MEDLINE for trials published between 1976 and 1994 inclusive, and a bibliographic review of all articles retrieved. STUDY SELECTION: Randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind clinical trials were selected that evaluated the pain-free walking distance (the distanced walked on a treadmill before the onset of calf pain) and the absolute claudication distance (the maximum distance walked on a treadmill) among patients with moderate intermittent claudication. Twelve study groups in 11 trials were included in the analysis. DATA EXTRACTION: In addition to information regarding the trial design, patient characteristics, dosages and treatment periods, the means and standard deviations were collected for both the pain-free walking and absolute claudication distances. Trial quality was also assessed. DATA SYNTHESIS: Overall, there was a statistically significant improvement in the pain-free walking distance after pentoxifylline therapy (weighted mean difference 29.4 m [95% confidence interval (CI) 13.0 to 45.9 m]); this finding was based on a total sample of 612 patients (308 in the treatment groups and 304 in the control groups). A significant improvement was also noted in the absolute claudication distance (weighted mean difference 48.4 m [95% CI 18.3 to 78.6 m]); this was based on a total sample of 511 patients (258 in the treatment group and 253 in the control group). In a sensitivity analysis of the pain-free walking distance, significant treatment effects and no statistically significant heterogeneity were found when only trials were included that were "medically eligible" (involved patients with stage II disease and a pain-free walking distance of 50 to 200 m). In a similar sensitivity analysis of the absolute claudication distance, the two conditions resulting in a significant treatment effect and no significant heterogeneity were the inclusion of "medically eligible" trials and those with a shorter treatment duration (13 weeks or less). CONCLUSION: Pentoxifylline therapy may be efficacious in improving the walking capacity of patients with moderate intermittent claudication. However, properly conducted clinical trials are required to provide a true estimate of the benefit.
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#118
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Öèòàòà:
íî ìíå êàæåòñÿ ÿ íà÷èíàþ ïîíèìàòü âñå ãëóáèíó âçàèìíîãî íåïîíèìàíèÿ â åòîé òåìå (çàïàòåíòîâàòü ôðàçó ÷òî ëè?). Ïî-ìîåìó åòî íåäîïîíèìàíèÿ ðåçóëüòàò îòðûâà êîëëåãè rodrn îò íàøèõ ðåàëèé. 1. ó íàñ äèàãíîñòèêó ïðîâîäÿò ôóíêöèîíàëüíûå äèàãíîñòû, ò.å. íàãðóçèòå âû íå àíãèîòåðàïåâòîâ à èìåííî ôóíêöèîíàëèñòîâ. 2. òåïåðü ìåíÿ ìó÷àåò ìûñëü, êòî ïðèìåíèò ê Âàì ìåòîäû íåçàêîííîãî ôèçè÷åñêîãî âîçäåéñòâèÿ çà ìûñëü Öèòàòà:
![]() íå çíàþ êàê â ñòîëèöàõ, íî ó íàñ â ãëóáèíêå áîþñü ñàìè ñîñóäèñòûå õèðóðãè áóäóò ïðîòèâ ìûñëè ëèøèòü èõ êîíñåðâàíòîâ, ïîòîìó êàê òåõíè÷åñêîå îáåñïå÷åíèå íå ïîçâîëÿåò äåëàòü íå÷òî êðóòîå, ïîòîìó äàííàÿ êàòåãîðèÿ ïàöèåíòîâ èõ õëåá íàñóùíûé |
#119
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Õî÷åòñÿ äîáàâèòü ïî òðåíòàëó: â ñâåòå òîãî, ÷òî îí ìåíåå åôôåêòèâåí, ÷åì öèëîñòàçîë, â ïîñëåäíèõ ACCP ðåêîìåíäàöèÿõ îí íå ðåêîìåíäîâàí ïðè PAD (ïðè íàëè÷èè áîëåå äåéñòâåííîé àëüòåðíàòèâû), íî íå çíà÷èò, ÷òî îí íå åôôåêòèâåí...
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#120
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Óâàæàåìûé Ðîìàí! ß íå îòðèöàþ òîãî, ÷òî PAD íåäîîöåíåí. ß äàæå íå ïðîòèâ àíãèîëîãèè - ïóñòü ðàáîòàþò. Íî, êàê ãîâîðèòñÿ, Âàì áû íàøè ïðîáëåìû... Ïîìíèòå, êàê â "Æóêå â ìóðàâåéíèêå"?
"Ó ìåíÿ â ýòî âðåìÿ áûëî âîññòàíèå â ïàíäåå! Ïåðâûé ìàññîâûé äåñàíò îêåàíñêîé èìïåðèè! Âû-òî äîëæíû ïîíèìàòü, ÷òî òàêîå... Ãîñïîäè! Äà åñëè ãîâîðèòü ÷åñòíî, ÿ î âàñ è äóìàòü òîãäà çàáûë!" Òàêèå ïèðîãè... |