#16
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Óâàæàåìûå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷ è äð. äîêòîðà, ñêàæèòå íóæíû ëè êàêèå-òî àíàëèçû äëÿ íàçíà÷åíèÿ è êîíòðîëÿ ïðè àìáóëàòîðíîì íàçíà÷åíèè àíòèàãðåãàíòîâ (ðàçíûõ)?
À íàñ÷åò ôóíäóñ-êàìåðû: ó íàñ â Ðîñòîâñêîé îáëàñòè èõ áóäåò îêîëî 4-5 (â îñíîâíîì â êîìåð÷åñêèõ êëèíèêàõ - òàê ÷òî ñî ñòîèìîñòüþ òàêîãî íàáëþäåíèÿ ïðîáëåìû), ìîæåò â Êðàñíîÿðñêå èõ áîëüøå. Ñ óâàæåíèåì, ñïàñèáî çà îáñóæäåíèå. |
#17
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Íèêîãäà íå ñëûøàëà î òðåáîâàíèÿõ àíàëèçîâ ïðè íàçíà÷åíèè àíòèàãðåãàíòîâ.
Ó íàñ 2-3, áîëüíûå ôîòîãðàôèðóþò ðåäêî. Ìîòèâèðóåì ìîëîäåæü, ñ òðóäîì. |
#18
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Öèòàòà:
Îòâåò íà âîïðîñ îá ýôôåêòå ïåíòîêñèôèëëèíà ïðè ÄÐ... - íå äîêàçàíî... |
#19
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Äèàáåòè÷åñêàÿ ðåòèíîïàòèÿ - ËÀÇÅÐ ÔÎÐÅÂÅÐ, ïëþñ êîìïåíñàöèÿ ñàõàðîâ!!! È íå íàäî èçîáðåòàòü âåëîñèïåä.
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#20
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ß ñïðàøèâàëà ÿ íå ñòîëüêî î ïîëüçå (ïåíòîêñèôèëëèíà íåò â ðåêîìåíäàöèÿõ ýíäîêðèíîëîãîâ ìíîãî ëåò, ÿ ýòî çíàþ), ñêîëüêî î âðåäå ÂÍÓÒÐÈÂÅÍÍÎÃÎ ââåäåíèÿ ýòîãî ïðåïàðàòà ïðè ïðå è ïðîëèôåðàòèâíîé ðåòèíîïàòèè. Ñàìà äèñêóññèÿ ïîäòâåðæäàåò îòñóòñòâèå äîêàçàòåëüíîé áàçû. Áîëüíûå ÑÄ ëþáÿò ïîëó÷àòü Êàïåëüíèöû äëÿ "÷èñòêè ñîñóäîâ" è ñàìè âðà÷è èäóò ó íèõ íà ïîâîäó. Îòñóòñòâèå ïîëüçû ÿñíî. À âîò âðåä?
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#21
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Îòñóòñòâèå äîêàçàòåëüíîé áàçû - íå çíà÷èò îòñóòñòâèå ïîëüçû: áîëüøèíñòâî ðàáîò ïî òðåíòàëó áûëî âûïîëíåíî äî ïåðèîäà ñòàíîâëåíèÿ äîêàçàòåëüíîé ìåäèöèíû è èññëåäîâàëèñü ðàçíûå ìÿãêèå òî÷êè åôôåêòèâíîñòè, ïî êîòîðûì îòìå÷àëîñü åãî ïîëîæèòåëüíîå äåéñòâèå. Íèêòî ñåãîäíÿ íå ñòàíåò âêëàäûâàòü äåíüãè â ñåðüåçíûå êëèí. èññëåäîâàíèÿ ïî òðåíòàëó ïðè ðåòèíîïàòèè, òàê êàê åòî íå ïðèíåñåò íèêàêèõ äèâèäåíäîâ ïðîèçâîäèòåëþ.
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#22
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Õîðîøî, áóäåì íàäåÿòüñÿ íà ýôôåêòèâíîñòü, â òåõ ñëó÷àÿõ, êîãäà íàðóøåíà àãðåãàöèÿ òðîìáîöèòîâ, âåäü ýòî îñíîâíàÿ òî÷êà ïðèëîæåíèÿ.
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#23
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Åñëè ýòî î ãåìîððàãè÷íîñòè òðåíòàëà,òî â ïîñòå ¹8 èç öèòàòû " çíà÷èòåëüíî áîëåå ðàííÿÿ àáñîðáöèÿ ãåìîðàãèé.....ðåæå íåîâàñêóëÿðèçàöèÿ........ Ãåìîððàãè÷åñêèõ ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ íå áûëî....................................Ýòè ðåçóëüòàòû ïðåäïîëàãàþò ýôôåêòèâíîñòü ïåíòîêñà â ïðîôèëàêòèêå ðåòèíàëüíîé è èíòðàâèòðåàëüíîé íåîâàñêóëÿðèçàöèè".
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#24
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Íà ñåãîäíÿøíèé äåíü ñ÷èòàåòñÿ, ÷òî îñíîâíîé ìåõàíèçì äåéñòâèÿ òðåíòàëà - àíòèöèòîêèíîâûé, ñíèæàåò ïðîäóêöèþ ÔÍÎ è äð. ïðîâîñïàëèòåëüíûõ öèòîêèíîâ.
Actions of pentoxiphylline potentially relevant for its beneficial renal effects in diabetic nephropathy. • Improvement of erythrocyte deformability and filterability, reduction of blood viscosity and improvement of capillary blood flow, with subsequent reduction of intraglomerular hydraulic pressure. • Antagonism of adenosine receptors with reduction of hyperfiltration. • Suppression of TNF-α gene transcription and reduction of TNF-α mRNA accumulation. • Reduction of inflammatory cytokine genes in the kidney. • Modulation of IL-1, IL-6 and interferon-γ. • Reduction of hyperglycemia-induced fibronectin and TGF-β production. • Reduction of cellular activation, phagocytosis and endothelium adhesion. • Beneficial effects on the thrombomodulin/protein C/protein S system. • Regression of platelet aggregability, reduction in fibrinogen, increase in antithrombin III and decrease in antiplasmin activity. • Enhancement of prostacyclin release and attenuation of thomboxane production. • Reduction of neutrophil degranulation and oxygen-free radical production. • Reduction in lipoperoxide levels and increment of total antioxidant activity in renal tissue. Cytokine Growth Factor Rev. 2009 Apr;20(2):165-73. Êðîìå òîãî, çàìå÷åí â óãíåòåíèè ãëèêèðîâàíèÿ (ãëèêîçèëèðîâàíèÿ) áåëêîâ: Evidence that pioglitazone, metformin and pentoxifylline are inhibitors of glycation. Rahbar S, Natarajan R, Yerneni K, Scott S, Gonzales N, Nadler JL. Clin Chim Acta. 2000 Nov;301(1-2):65-77
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#25
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:moderator:
Ïðîäîëæèì: èç ñìåæíîé òåìû Ïðîôèëàêòèêà äèàáåòè÷åñêîé ðåòèíîïàòèè ïîíÿòíî, ÷òî î÷åíü âàæíû íàáëþäåíèå è ïðàâèëüíîå ëå÷åíèå (âêëþ÷àÿ ïî ïîêàçàíèÿì ñòàòèíû, àñïèðèíû è äð..). Íî ÷òî äåëàòü êîãäà, âîò îíî - ñëó÷èëîñü!
Ïîíÿòíà ðîëü ïàíðåòèíàëüíîé ëàçåðêîàãóëÿöèè â ïðåäîòâðàùåíèè è ñòàáèëèçàöèè ïðîëèôåðàòèâíûõ "óõóäøåíèé". (ñðàâíèâàÿ ýòî â ñîçäàíèåì óñëîâèé äëÿ îàçèñà êðîâîñíàáæåíèÿ â ìàêóëå ïðè îêðóæàþùåé ïóñòûíå â ñåò÷àòêå - âåäü ãèïîêñè÷åñêèå ñîñòîÿíèÿ ïðè èçìåííûõ ñîñóäàõ ïîäîáíû îòñóòñâèþ âîäû â îðîñèòåëüíîé ñèñòåìå). Ïîíÿòíî, ÷òî ýòà ðàáîòà (ÏÐÊ) êðîïîòëèâàÿ è ïàöèåíòîì ìîæåò íå îñîçíîâàòüñÿ. Íî ìåòîäèêà êîòîðàÿ óïîìèíàëàñü - ëàçåðêîàãóëÿöèÿ â ìàêóëå ìåòîäîì ðåøåòêè ïî Þ.À. Èâàíèøêî (íå óãëóáëÿÿñü â àâòîðñòâî.. èçâèíèòå, èñòîðè÷åñêèé îáçîð íå äåëàë). Êàêèå ïëþñû? Êàêèå ìèíóñû? Ïîêàçàíèÿ? [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] - ïðîñòèòå, ëàçåðùèêè ïîìîãèòå ðàçîáðàòüñÿ, äóìàþ ýòî ìíîãèì áûëî áû ïîëåçíî.. êàê åñëè áû ãîâîðèëè ïàöèåíòó (ñêàæåì, íå ñàìîìó ãëóïîìó.... íî íå "ëàçåðùèêó- ![]() P.S. íå òî ìîæíî ïîäóìàòü, ÷òî ìû òîëüêî çà êîëëàëèçèí è ïåíòîêñèôèëëèí ![]() |
#26
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äèàáåòè÷åñêàÿ ðåòèíîïàòèÿ
Äëÿ ïàöèåíòîâ: èç YouTube
ËÀÇÅÐÛ, êàê ýòî äåëàåòñÿ:
Òàêîå óñîâåðøåíñòâîâàíèå ïîìîãàåò óñêîðèòü ëå÷åíèå, íî áûñòðî åùå íå îçíà÷àåò ëó÷øå.
 ñëó÷àÿõ óõóäøåíèé, òàêæå ïðîâîäèòüñÿ ëàçåðêîàãóëÿöèÿ âî âðåìÿ ïîäîáíûõ îïåðàöèè âíóòðè ãëàçà
Òàêèå òÿæåëûå ñëó÷àè çàáîëåâàíèÿ ëó÷øå íå äîïóñêàòü:
Ñ íàèëó÷øèìè ïîæåëàíèÿìè. Âñå ïðèìåðû - äëÿ îðèåíòèðîâàíèÿ, âîçìîæíî êòî-òî ñêàæåò ÷òî äîëæíî áûòü áîëåå êà÷åñòâåííîå âûïîëíåíèå îòäåëüíûõ ìîìåíòîâ èëè ñîâåðøåííî ïî äðóãîìó, íî íå âñåãäà ýòî ëåãêî íàéòè è âûëîæèòü.  Ðîññèè äåëàþò âî ìíîãèõ êëèíèêàõ, è çíàþ âî ìíîãèõ ñëó÷àÿõ íà î÷åíü âûñîêîì óðîâíå. P.S. äëÿ âðà÷åé - ìåòîä Pascal íå óáåäèë (íî èíòåðåñíîå âèäåî ìîæíî ïîñìîòðåòü çäåñü [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ], ñïàñèáî Rameyka). ![]() |
#27
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Äåëî â òîì, ÷òî ïðè ÄÐ âûïîëíåíèå ËÊ - ïðîöåññ ñîâåðøåííî òâîð÷åñêèé. Åñòü îñíîâíûå ïðèíöèïû è ïðàâèëà, íî ÷¸òêèõ êðèòåðèåâ ÷òî "ñåãîäíÿ åù¸ íå ïîêàçàíà, à çàâòðà áóäåò ïîêàçàíà" íåò. Âñ¸ çàâèñèò îò ñòåïåíè ïîðàæåíèÿ. ß íàïðèìåð êëàññè÷åñêóþ ðåø¸òêó ñòàðàÿñü íå âûïîëíÿòü. Òóïî äîëáèòü ñåò÷àòêó, à òåì áîëåå ìàêóëó íå ëþáëþ. Ïðåäïî÷èòàþ äóìàòü. Îñíîâíîé ïóòåâîäèòåëü äëÿ ËÊ â ìàêóëå - ôëþîðåñöåíòíàÿ àíãèîãðàôèÿ, õîòÿ åñëè "ïîíÿòü" ÄÐ, ïðèíöèïû ïîðàæåíèÿ, ðàçâèòèÿ ýòîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ, òî îíà íå íóæíà.  îñíîâíîì, ïîêàçàíèÿ äëÿ ËÊ â ìàêóëå - îò¸ê, ïðèâåäøèé ê ñíèæåíèþ çðåíèÿ, ëèáî "êëèíè÷åñêè çíà÷èìûé îò¸ê", áåç ñíèæåíèÿ çðåíèÿ...
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#28
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Âîò èíòåðåñíûé ïðèìåð: Ìîëîäàÿ æåíùèíà 32 ëåò. Äèàãíîç ÄÐ, ïðîëèôåðàòèâíàÿ ôîðìà. Vis = 1.0 Êðóæî÷êàìè îáâåäåíû íåáîëüøîé î÷àæîê íåîñîñóäà, âåíîçíàÿ ïåòëÿ - ïðèçíàêè ïðîëèôåðàòèâíîé ÄÐ. Ñòðåëêîé óêàçàí êëèíè÷åñêè çíà÷èìûé îò¸ê (âåðíåå, ïî ðàñïîëîæåíèþ ò.ý. ìîæíî ïðåäïîëîæèòü ÷òî ýòî áûë îò¸ê áîëüøå, ïðîèçîø¸ë åãî ðåãðåññ, õîòÿ áîëüíàÿ óòâåðæäàåò, ÷òî çðåíèå íå ñíèæàëîñü.
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#29
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Òàêèì îáðàçîì, ïîêàçàíà ÏÐÊ (íåî!), ïëþñ ðåø¸òêà ñ ñîáëþäåíèåì ïðèíöìïà ôîêàëüíîñòè â ìàêóëÿðíîé çîíå... Âîò ïðèìåð ìîåãî "òâîð÷åñòâà":
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#30
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Ñïàñèáî áîëüøîå, ÷òî îòâåòèëè. Ñïàñèáî çà òî, ÷òî ïîäåëèëèñü òàêèì ñëó÷àåì è ïðîâåëè áîëüøîé îáúåì ðàáîòû. Èíòåðñíî â ýòîì ñëó÷àå - ýòî îäèí ýòàï, ñêîëüêî îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî áûëî "ôîêàëüíûõ" íåáîëüøèõ êîàãóëÿòîâ è ñêîëüêî êðóïíûõ? Ïëàíèðóåòå, ÷òî-òî äîáàâëÿòü?
Ìîæíî ñïðîñèòü äëÿ ìîåãî ïîíèìàíèÿ: â ýòîé ÷àñòè êîòîðóþ ÿ îáâåë - â ìèêðîöèðêóëÿòîðíîì áàññåéíå òåõ âåòî÷åê ñ "íåîâàñêÿðèçàöèåé" ïî÷åìó íåáîëüøîå êîëè÷åñòâî ËÊ, âåäü â íåé ñóäÿ ïî îáðàçîâàíèþ "ïåòåëü" ïðîñòî ôàáðèêà VEGF. Êàê îáîçâàòü òî, ÷òî ÿ îáâåë òðåóãîëüíèêîì - ýòî ïóñòÿê?, ÷åñòíî îïûòà íà "ìèêðîóðîâíå è â ÔÀÃ" ìàëî. Çàðàíåå ñïàñèáî. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] |