Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà

Âåðíóòüñÿ   Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà > Ôîðóìû âðà÷åáíûõ êîíñóëüòàöèé > Ýíäîêðèíîëîãèÿ > Ôîðóì äëÿ îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé ýíäîêðèíîëîãîâ

Îòâåò
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 05.10.2011, 21:28
Kery Kery âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.11.2010
Ãîðîä: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 159
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 19
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 4 ðàç(à) çà 4 ñîîáùåíèé
Kery ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò îòëè÷íóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
ñóáêëèíè÷åñêèé ãèïåðêîðòèöèçì

Óâàæàåìûå êîëëåãè! ïðîøó ñîâåòà ïî êëèíè÷åñêîìó ñëó÷àþ.
Íà àìáóëàòîðíîì ïðèåìå ìóæ÷èíà 43 ëåò. Æàëîáû íà ýïèçîäû ïîâûøåíèÿ öèôð ÀÄ (ìàêñ. 200/100 ìì ðò ñò (ïðè ðàá. ÀÄ 115/70)). Ïîâûøåíèå ÀÄ ñîïðîâîæäàåòñÿ äðîæàíèåì ðóê, îùóùåíèåì äðîæè â òåëå, îáùåé è ìûøå÷íîé ñëàáîñòüþ, ïîêðàñíåíèåì ëèöà.
Êóïèðóåò ÀÄ ïðèåìîì êàïîòåíà. Ïîñëå ñíèæåíèÿ ÀÄ - îáèëüíîå ìî÷åîòäåëåíèå.
Óõóäøåíèå ñàìî÷óâñòâèÿ ñâÿçûâàåò ñ ýìîöèîíàëüíîé íàãðóçêîé, íî áûâàþò "ïðèñòóïû" è â ïîêîå.
 òå÷åíèå ïîñëåäíèõ 6 ìåñÿöåâ ïîõóäåë íà 12 êã (ïîñòåïåííî), ñåé÷àñ âåñ ñòàáèëüíûé (íå õóäååò, íî è íå ïðèáàâëÿåò).
 íàñòîÿùåå âðåìÿ ïðèíèìàåò ïî ðåêîìåíäàöèè êàðäèîëîãà ôèçèîòåíç 200 ìã, àêóïðî, àäàïòîë.
Íàñëåäñòâåíîñòü ïî ýíä. ïàòîëîãèè íå îòÿãîùåíà, íî èìååòñÿ îòÿã. àíàìíåç ïî ÑÑ ïàòîëîãèè (îòåö è äåä óìåðëè îò èíôàðêòà â 40 ëåò)
Àíàìíåñòè÷åñêè: Âûøåîïèñàííûå ïðèñòóïû â òå÷åíèå ãîäà (ðàíåå 1 ðàç â ïîëãîäà, çà ïîñëåäíèå 2 ìåñÿöà - ó÷àñòèëèñü äî 1 ðàçà â íåäåëþ).
Ðàíåå (ÿíâàðü 2011ã) ïðè îáñëåäîâàíèè: Ýëåêòðîëèòû: êàëèé 4,55 ììîëü/ë, íàòðèé 145,5 ììîëü/ë, ãëèêåìèÿ 5,1-5,3 ììîëü/ë.
ÒÒà 2,69 ìÌå/ìë.
ÌÐÒ ãèïîôèçà - áåç ïàòîëîãèè.
Îáúåêòèâíî: Êîíòàêòåí, àäåêâàòåí, íî ñèëüíî îáåñïîêîåí ïîâûøåíèåì ÀÄ, òðåâîæåí. Ðàñïðåäåëåíèå ÏÆÊ ðàâíîìåðíîå, ñòðèé íåò. Ëèöî - ãèïåðåìèÿ êîæè ùåê, íà îñòàëüíûõ ó÷àñòêàõ - êîæà îáû÷íîé îêðàñêè è âëàæíîñòè.
Ðîñò 180 ñì, âåñ 78 êã.
ÀÄ ïðè îñìîòðå 125/80 ìì ðò ñò.
Ïðè îáñëåäîâàíèè: ÊÀÊ. ÎÀÌ - áåç ïàòîëîãèè.
êîðòèçîë ìî÷è 23,8 ìêã/ñóò (10-15).
Êîðòèçîë êðîâè : óòðî 642 íìîëü/ë (171-5360, âå÷åð 592,8 íìîëü/ë, ÀÊÒà 12,54 ïìîëü\ë (1,6-13,9)
ìåòàíåôðèí ñâîá. â ìî÷å 17,9 ìêã/ñóò (0-60), íîðìåòàíåôðèí ñâ. â ìî÷å 48,9 ìêã/ñóò (0-120)
ìåòàíåôðèí êðîâè 28 ïã/ìë (0-90), íîðìåòàíåôðèí êðîâè 28 ïã/ììë (0-180)
Àëüäîñòåðîí (çàáîð â ïîë. ëåæà) 32 ïã/ìë (10-105), àêòèâíîñòü ðåíèíà ïëàçìû 0,58 íã/ìë/÷àñ (0,50-1,90)
Ïðîâåäåíà ïðîáà ñ äåêñàìåòàçîíîì 2 ìã(ïî êëàññè÷åñêîìó ïðîòîêîëó) : ñâ. êîðòèçîë ìî÷è 39 (10-15), ñâ. êîðòèçîí ìî÷è 50,8 (20-50), èíäåêñ ñâ. êîðòèçîí/ñâ. êîðòèçîë ìî÷è 1,3 (2-3).
Êîðòèçîë êðîâè (ïîñëå ïðîáû) ìåíåå 27 íìîëü\ë.
Ïî äàííûì ÓÇÈ íàäïî÷å÷íèêîâ - íåëüçÿ èñêëþ÷èòü ãèïåðïëàçèþ îáîèõ íàäïî÷å÷íèêîâ (?)
Íàïðàâëåí íà ÌÐÒ íàäïî÷å÷íèêîâ ( ÊÒ íå âûïîëíèòü èç-çà àëëåðãèè íà êîíòðàñò)
Âîïðîñîâ íåñêîëüêî:
ýíäîãåííûé ãèïåðêîðòèöèçì (êàê ÿ ïîíèìàþ) äîêàçàí.
Êàêîâà ìîÿ äàëüíåéøàÿ òàêòèêà ? (äîæäåìñÿ ÌÐÒ, êîíå÷íî, íî åñëè ãèïåðïëàçèÿ ïîäòâåðäèòñÿ ? èëè íàîáîðîò íåò...)
Áîëüøàÿ äåêñàìåò. ïðîáà ?
Ïðîøó ïîìîùè
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 05.10.2011, 21:52
Àâàòàð äëÿ FilippovaYulia
FilippovaYulia FilippovaYulia âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 30.01.2011
Ãîðîä: Âîëãîãðàä
Ñîîáùåíèé: 15,451
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 17
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 6,380 ðàç(à) çà 6,136 ñîîáùåíèé
FilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Kery Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Ïðîâåäåíà ïðîáà ñ äåêñàìåòàçîíîì 2 ìã(ïî êëàññè÷åñêîìó ïðîòîêîëó) : ñâ. êîðòèçîë ìî÷è 39 (10-15), ñâ. êîðòèçîí ìî÷è 50,8 (20-50), èíäåêñ ñâ. êîðòèçîí/ñâ. êîðòèçîë ìî÷è 1,3 (2-3).
Êîðòèçîë êðîâè (ïîñëå ïðîáû) ìåíåå 27 íìîëü\ë.
Ñòðàííûé êàêîé-òî "êëàññè÷åñêèé ïðîòîêîë", - íå ìàëàÿ äåêñàìåòàçîíîâàÿ ïðîáà, è íå áîëüøàÿ - íàñêîëüêî ÿ çíàþ, "êëàññè÷åñêîé" ÿâëÿåòñÿ ìàëàÿ äåêñàìåòàçîíîâàÿ ïðîáà ñ 1 ìã äåêñàìåòàçîíà è ñ îïðåäåëåíèåì êîðòèçîëà â êðîâè, à íå â ìî÷å. Ïðè÷åì ïîäàâëåíèå óòðåííåãî êîðòèçîëà ìåíåå 50 íìîëü/ë èñêëþ÷àåò ãèïåðêîðòèöèçì. Ïîñìîòðèì. ÷òî ñêàæóò áîëåå îïûòíûå "ñòàðøèå òîâàðèùè"...
"Êîðòèçîë â ìî÷å" - ýòî ñâîáîäíûé êîðòèçîë â ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷å?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 05.10.2011, 22:06
Kery Kery âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.11.2010
Ãîðîä: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 159
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 19
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 4 ðàç(à) çà 4 ñîîáùåíèé
Kery ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò îòëè÷íóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
"Êîðòèçîë â ìî÷å" - ýòî ñâîáîäíûé êîðòèçîë â ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷å?
Äà, ýòî ñâîáîäíûé êîðòèçîë â ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷å
Ìàëàÿ äåêñàìåò. ïðîáà - èìåëàñü ââèäó ïðîáà ñ 2 ìã äåêñàìåòàçîíà (â òå÷åíèå 3-õ äíåé 2 ìã äåêñà â ñóòêè, íà 3-é äåíü, íå îòìåíÿÿ ïðåïàðàò - ñáîð ìî÷è íà ñâ. êîðòèçîë, óòðîì 4-ãî äíÿ - êðîâü íà êîðòèçîë + ìî÷ó çà ñóòêè â ëàáîðàòîðèþ...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 06.10.2011, 00:30
Àâàòàð äëÿ Sorokin
Sorokin Sorokin âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 03.01.2010
Ãîðîä: Íîâîñèáèðñê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 398
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 16
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 111 ðàç(à) çà 96 ñîîáùåíèé
Sorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Êëàññè÷åñêèé âàðèàíò ïðîáû:
- äåíü 1: êîðòèçîë íàòîùàê + êîðòèçîë ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷è (äåêñàìåòàçîí íå ïðèíèìàåòñÿ)
- äåíü 2: ïðè¸ì äåêñàìåòàçîíà 0.5 ìã êàæäûå 6 ÷àñîâ
- äåíü 3: ïðè¸ì äåêñàìåòàçîíà 0.5 ìã êàæäûå 6 ÷àñîâ + êîðòèçîë ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷è
- äåíü 4: êîðòèçîë êðîâè íàòîùàê

Õîòÿ ïðîáà ìîæåò ïðîâîäèòüñÿ è ïî "íî÷íîìó ïðîòîêîëó" ñ 1 ìã äåêñàìåòàçîíà îäíîêðàòíî è ïîñëåäóþùèì îïðåäåëåíèåì óòðåííåãî êîðòèçîëà.

Äåéñòâèòåëüíî, êàê îòìåòèëà äîêòîð Ôèëèïïîâà, óðîâåíü óòðåííåãî êîðòèçîëà ïîñëå ïðîáû ìåíåå 50 íìîëü/ìë Êóøèíãà äîëæåí èñêëþ÷àòü. Åñëè ÿ ïðàâèëüíî ïîíèìàþ, ãàéäëàéí ïî Êóøèíãó ðåêîìåíäóåò â òîé ñèòóàöèè, ãäå ïîñëå äâóõ òåñòîâ îñòàþòñÿ ñîìíåíèÿ, ïîâòîðèòü èññëåäîâàíèå ÷åðåç 6 ìåñ.

Ñ òîïè÷åñêîé äèàãíîñòèêîé (ÓÇÈ íàäïî÷å÷íèêîâ), ñ÷èòàþ, ïîòîðîïèëèñü.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 06.10.2011, 05:55
ValentinaP ValentinaP âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 30.06.2004
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 2,837
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 15
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,025 ðàç(à) çà 1,004 ñîîáùåíèé
ValentinaP ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåValentinaP ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåValentinaP ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåValentinaP ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåValentinaP ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåValentinaP ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåValentinaP ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåValentinaP ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåValentinaP ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
 ëå÷åíèè ïàöèåíòà áûëà áû ïîëåçíà ïîìîùü ïñèõîòåðàïåâòà\ïñèõèàòðà ( ïðè ëþáûõ èñõîäàõ ÌÄÏ è òä) Ïàíè÷åñêèå àòàêè?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 06.10.2011, 08:00
Kery Kery âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.11.2010
Ãîðîä: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 159
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 19
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 4 ðàç(à) çà 4 ñîîáùåíèé
Kery ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò îòëè÷íóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ñïàñèáî, óâàæàåìûå êîëëåãè.
Ïðîáà ïðîâîäèëàñü èìåííî ïî ïðîòîêîëó, îïèñàííîìó äîêòîðîì Ñîðîêèíûì.
Ïðî ïàíè÷åñêèå àòàêè òîæå äóìàëà, ïñèõîòðàïåâò óæå â ïëàíå.
Äîæäóñü ÷òî òàì ñ "òîïèêîé" íàäïî÷å÷íèêîâ
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 06.10.2011, 12:26
Àâàòàð äëÿ FilippovaYulia
FilippovaYulia FilippovaYulia âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 30.01.2011
Ãîðîä: Âîëãîãðàä
Ñîîáùåíèé: 15,451
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 17
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 6,380 ðàç(à) çà 6,136 ñîîáùåíèé
FilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Òîïèêà ïðè íåäîêàçàííîì Êóøèíãå íèêàêîãî êëèíè÷åñêîãî çíà÷åíèÿ íå èìååò. ×òî áû òàì â íàäïî÷å÷íèêàõ íè íàøëè.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 06.10.2011, 23:00
Kery Kery âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.11.2010
Ãîðîä: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 159
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 19
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 4 ðàç(à) çà 4 ñîîáùåíèé
Kery ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò îòëè÷íóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
íå ñî âñåì ìîãó ñîãëàñèòüñÿ.
Íà ñåãîäíÿøíèé äåíü ìû âñå âðîäå áû ïîíÿëè, ÷òî äëÿ ïîäòâåðæäåíèÿ ýíäîãåííîãî ãèïåðêîðòèöèçìà íàäî ñìîòðåòü êîðòèçîë ñóò. ìî÷è ("êîðò. êðîâè ì.á. êàêèì óãîäíî ïðè ÷åì óãîäíî è íè î ÷åì íå ãîâîðèòü").
Ïîñìîòðåëà êîðò. ìî÷è - ïîâûøåí.
Íà ôîíå ïðîáû - ïîâûøåí...
Íî ìîæåò Âû è ïðàâû - íèêàêîãî Êóøèíãà ó ïàöèåíòà íåò è áûòü íå ìîæåò, "êëèíè÷åñêîãî çíà÷åíèÿ íå èìååò".
õî÷ó åùå ïîñîâåòîâàòüñÿ âîò â ÷åì: Êîòèçîë ó ìîåãî ïàöèåíòà ïîâûøåí (äî ïðîáû) - â ìî÷å è â êðîâè (ìîæ. áûòü îáóñëîâëåíî ñòðåññîì è ò.ä.).
äåëàþ ïðîáó ñ äåêñàìåòàçîíîì - êîðòèçîë "ïàäàåò" äî 27 íìîëü/ë. Ýòî ïðàêòè÷åñêè ïîëíîñòüþ èñêëþ÷àåò ýíäîã. ãèïåðêîðòèöèçì, òàê?
Ìîæåò â ñóò. ìî÷å êàêàÿ ïåðåêðåñòíàÿ ðåàêöèÿ íà ôîíå 3-õ äíåâíîãî ïðèåìà äåêñà è ïîýòîìó êîðòèçîë ìî÷è ïîâûøåí ïîñëå ïðîáû? Îøèáàþñü? íåò?
Èçâèíèòå çà ñóìáóðíîñòü èçëîæåíèÿ ìûñëè
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #9  
Ñòàðûé 07.10.2011, 01:50
Àâàòàð äëÿ Sorokin
Sorokin Sorokin âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 03.01.2010
Ãîðîä: Íîâîñèáèðñê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 398
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 16
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 111 ðàç(à) çà 96 ñîîáùåíèé
Sorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSorokin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Kery Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
õî÷ó åùå ïîñîâåòîâàòüñÿ âîò â ÷åì: Êîòèçîë ó ìîåãî ïàöèåíòà ïîâûøåí (äî ïðîáû) - â ìî÷å è â êðîâè (ìîæ. áûòü îáóñëîâëåíî ñòðåññîì è ò.ä.).
äåëàþ ïðîáó ñ äåêñàìåòàçîíîì - êîðòèçîë "ïàäàåò" äî 27 íìîëü/ë. Ýòî ïðàêòè÷åñêè ïîëíîñòüþ èñêëþ÷àåò ýíäîã. ãèïåðêîðòèöèçì, òàê?
Ìîæåò â ñóò. ìî÷å êàêàÿ ïåðåêðåñòíàÿ ðåàêöèÿ íà ôîíå 3-õ äíåâíîãî ïðèåìà äåêñà è ïîýòîìó êîðòèçîë ìî÷è ïîâûøåí ïîñëå ïðîáû? Îøèáàþñü? íåò?
Âîïðîñ, êîòîðûì ÿ òîæå íåäàâíî çàäàâàëñÿ.
 [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] ãîâîðèòñÿ:
Öèòàòà:
Antibody-based immunoassays such as unextracted RIA and ELISA can be affected by cross-reactivity with cortisol metabolites and synthetic glucocorticoids. In contrast, structurally based assays such as HPLC and tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) do not pose this problem and are being used with increasing frequency. However, there are also drugs (carbamazepine and fenofibrate) that may interfere with some of these chromatographic methods (Table 3), thereby causing falsely elevated values (40, 41). Upper limits of normal are much lower with HPLC or LC-MS/MS than in antibodybased assays. For example, urine cortisol values obtained using HPLC may be as low as 40% of the value measured by RIA (42, 43)
Ðåçþìèðóÿ, ÐÈÀ è ELISA ìîãóò äàâàòü ïåðåêðåñòíóþ ðåàêöèþ ñ äðóãèìè ÃÊÑ èëè ìåòàáîëèòàìè êîðòèçîëà, æèäêîñòíàÿ õðîìàòîãðàôèÿ è òàíäåì-ìàññ-ñïåêòðîìåòðèÿ ëèøåíû ýòîãî íåäîñòàòêà, íî ìîãóò ïåðåêðåñòíî ðåàãèðîâàòü íà êàðáàìàçåïèí è ôåíîôèáðàò, äàâàÿ ïðè ýòîì çàâûøåííûå çíà÷åíèÿ. Âûõîäèò, ÷òî åñëè ìû îöåíèâàåì êîðòèçîë ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷è íà ôîíå ïðè¸ìà äåêñàìåòàçîíà (ïðîáà), ïðèåìëåìûìè ëàáîðàòîðíûìè ìåòîäàìè ìîãóò ÿâëÿòüñÿ, òîëüêî ïîñëåäíèå äâà. Ê ïðèìåðó, ëàáîðàòîðèÿ Èíâèòðî èñïîëüçóåò èììóíîàíàëèç è ïåðåêðåñòíûå ðåàêöèè âïîëíå ðåàëüíû.

Ñèòóàöèè, ïðè êîòîðûõ ìîæåò áûòü òàêæå ëîæíî ïîâûøåí óðîâåíü ñâîáîäíîãî êîðòèçîëà ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷è:
Öèòàòà:
At the recommended cutoff point, false-positive elevations of UFC may be seen in several conditions. High fluid intake (³5 liters/d) significantly increases UFC (52). Any physiological or pathological condition that increases cortisol production raises UFC (Table 2).
• Pregnancy
• Depression and other psychiatric conditions
• Alcohol dependence
• Glucocorticoid resistance
• Morbid obesity
• Poorly controlled diabetes mellitus
Unlikely to have any clinical features of Cushing’s
syndrome
• Physical stress (hospitalization, surgery, pain)
• Malnutrition, anorexia nervosa
• Intense chronic exercise
• Hypothalamic amenorrhea
• CBG excess (increased serum but not urine
cortisol)
Therefore, in these conditions a normal result is more reliable than an abnormal one
Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû, ïðè ðÿäå îáñòîÿòåëüñòâ ìîæåò áûòü èñêàæ¸í ðåçóëüòàò ÌÄÏ:
Öèòàòà:
Variable absorption and metabolism of dexamethasone may influence the result of both the overnight 1-mg DST and the 48-h, 2 mg/d test. Drugs such as phenytoin, phenobarbitone, carbamazepine, rifampicin, and alcohol induce hepatic enzymatic clearance of dexamethasone, mediated through CYP 3A4, thereby reducing the plasma dexamethasone concentrations (Table 3) (47). Conversely, dexamethasone clearance may be reduced in patients with liver and/or renal failure. Dexamethasone levels show interindividual variation, however, even in healthy individuals on no medication
Òàêèì îáðàçîì, åñëè íåò ïðè¸ìà àëêîãîëÿ è âûøå óêàçàííûõ ïðåïàðàòîâ, ïî÷å÷íîé èëè ïå÷¸íî÷íîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè, ðåçóëüòàòàì ÌÄÏ âåðèì.

Ïîäâîäÿ ÷åðòó, Êóøèíã ìîæåò áûòü äèàãíîñòèðîâàí ïðè ïðîâåäåíèè õîòÿ áû äâóõ òåñòîâ ïðè èñêëþ÷åíèè ôàêòîðîâ, êîòîðûå ìîãóò äàâàòü ëîæíûå ðåçóëüòàòû ýòèõ ñàìûõ òåñòîâ. Åñëè îäèí èç íèõ îêàçûâàåòñÿ îòðèöàòåëüíûì, íî êëèíè÷åñêè Êóøèíã âåðîÿòåí èëè ïðîãðåññèðóþò ñèìïòîìû, êîòîðûå ïîòåíöèàëüíî äëÿ íåãî õàðàêòåðíû - íåîáõîäèìî ïîâòîðåíèå àíàëèçîâ ÷åðåç 6 ìåñ.

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
ValentinaP îäîáðèë(à):
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #10  
Ñòàðûé 07.10.2011, 07:03
Àâàòàð äëÿ FilippovaYulia
FilippovaYulia FilippovaYulia âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 30.01.2011
Ãîðîä: Âîëãîãðàä
Ñîîáùåíèé: 15,451
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 17
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 6,380 ðàç(à) çà 6,136 ñîîáùåíèé
FilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Õîòåëà áû ïîÿñíèòü ñâîþ ïîçèöèþ. ß ãîâîðèëà î òîì, ÷òî òîïèêà íå ìîæåò áûòü äîêàçàòåëüñòâîì ãîðìîíàëüíûõ íàðóøåíèé, à íå î òîì, ÷òî "Êóøèíãà íåò è áûòü íå ìîæåò". Ïðåäïîëîæèò, ñäåëàíî ÊÒ íàäïî÷å÷íèêîâ è ó ýòîãî áîëüíîãî â íàäïî÷å÷íèêå íàøëè íåêîå îáðàçîâàíèå äèàìåòðîì 1 ñì. Ýòî äîêàçûâàåò ñèíäðîì Êóøèíãà? Íåò. Ïðåäïîëîæèì, ïðè ÊÒ íàøëè ãèïåðïëàçèþ îáîèõ íàäïî÷å÷íèêîâ - ýòî äîêàçûâàåò áîëåçíü Èöåíêî-Êóøèíãà? Íåò. Äàæå åñëè ñäåëàòü ÌÐÒ ãèïîôèçà è ñ âåðîÿòíîñòüþ 15% íàéòè ìèêðîàäåíîìó - ýòî äîêàçûâàåò, ÷òî íàøëè êîðòèêîòðîïèíîìó? Íåò. Ïîìåíÿåòñÿ ëè òàêòèêà âðà÷à ïîñëå ïðîâåäåíèÿ âñåõ ýòèõ òîïè÷åñêèõ èññëåäîâàíèé? Ïî ïðåäïîëàãàåìîìó ôàêòè ãèïåðêîðòèöèçìà òîæå íåò - ðåçóëüòàò ñîìíèòåëåí, ïîâòîðÿåì òåñòû ÷åðåç 6 ìåñÿöåâ. Âñåãäà èùåì "÷òî?" - è òîëüêî ïîòîì "ýòî ãäå?" Íè â êîåì ñëó÷àå íå íàîáîðîò.
È ïî ïîâîäó ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷è. Ïîìèìî âñåõ ýòèõ î÷åíü óìíûõ è âàæíûõ ïåðåêðåñòíûõ ðåàêöèé è îãðàíè÷åíèé ìåòîäà, î êîòîðûõ ïèøåò êîëëåãà Ñîðîêèí, åñòü åùå îäèí ñîâñåì ïðîñòîé èñòî÷íèê îøèáîê. Ñóòî÷íóþ ìî÷ó êàê ñîáèðàëè?  ñïåöèàëüíóþ åìêîñòü ñ ãðàäóèðîâêîé, ÷òîáû ñóòî÷íûé îáúåì îïðåäåëèòü êàê ìîæíî áîëåå òî÷íî? Èëè â òðåõëèòðîâóþ áàíêó è ïîòîì ìåíçóðêîé èçìåðÿëè? Ïðîñòî ëè÷íî ñòàëêèâàëàñü ñ òåì, ÷òî â êðóïíîì è äîâîëüíî-òàêè óâàæàåìîì ìåäèöèíñêîì êîìïëåêñå â ëàáîðàòîðèè îáúåì ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷è èçìåðÿëè ÷óòü ëè íå ïîëëèòðîâîé áàíêîé...

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Sorokin îäîáðèë(à): ïðè ðàçëè÷íûõ àíàëèçàõ ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷è îøèáêè ÷àùå âñåãî ñëó÷àþòñÿ íà ïðåàíàëèòè÷åñêîì ýòàïå
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #11  
Ñòàðûé 07.10.2011, 16:26
Kery Kery âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.11.2010
Ãîðîä: Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðã
Ñîîáùåíèé: 159
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 19
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 4 ðàç(à) çà 4 ñîîáùåíèé
Kery ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò îòëè÷íóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
õî÷ó âûñêàçàòü äîêòîðó Ñîðîêèíó ñâîþ áëàãîäàðíîñòü çà ïîëåçíóþ èíôîðìàöèþ. Âñåãäà ñ óäîâîëüñòâèåì è âíèìàíèåì ÷èòàþ Âàøè ñîîáùåíèÿ.
Äîêòîðó FilippovaYulia ñïàñèáî! Èçâèíèòå, åñëè íåîñòîðîæíî îáèäåëà çà "Êóøèíãà áûòü è áûòü íå..."
Áîëüíîãî áóäó íàáëþäàòü, âîçìîæíî ýòî îêàæåòñÿ ïðîñòî "Physical stress"
P.S. Ìî÷ó ñîáèðàëè â ãðàäóèðîâàííóþ ëàáîðàòîðíóþ áàíêó áîëüíûõ ñòðîæó çà ýòî, à òî è ïðàâäà ñîáèðàþò êîå-êàê è èçìåðÿþò "íà ãëàç" êîëè÷åñòâî ìî÷è
Ñïàñèáî, äîêòîðà!

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Sorokin îäîáðèë(à): ñïàñèáî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #12  
Ñòàðûé 07.10.2011, 17:32
Àâàòàð äëÿ FilippovaYulia
FilippovaYulia FilippovaYulia âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 30.01.2011
Ãîðîä: Âîëãîãðàä
Ñîîáùåíèé: 15,451
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 17
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 6,380 ðàç(à) çà 6,136 ñîîáùåíèé
FilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåFilippovaYulia ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
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