Озонотерапия в США

[V. ZAITSEV]

Хочу ввернуться к вопросу, почему, в отличие от Европы, в США озонотерапия долгое время была как бы вне закона.
(Правда, в прошлом году FDA разрешило ограниченное применение).
Прошу обратить внимание, какая сумма (более двух миллионов долларов) было потрачено в Северной Америке на исследования в крупных медицинских центрах, которые продемонстрировали, в частности, очень низкий (по сравнению, с медикаментозной терапией) уровень побочных эффектов. И причины почему FDA затягивало с разрешением.


Medical Ozone has saved the lives of millions of people suffering from cancer, AIDS, Alzheimer's, herpes, hepatitis, and more. It has been used safely for over thirty years in Europe and countries throughout the world with remarkable results and the lowest level of side-effects (.000005) of any medical treatment.1 Thousands of doctors are calling it the most significant medical development in the last one hundred years, but it is not available in the U.S. The fact that it is inexpensive to produce, easily administered, and difficult to patent (ozone is a naturally occurring substance) has made it far from promising to major pharmaceutical companies. The FDA has barred it in the U.S. pending satisfaction of absurdly stringent research requirements. This has effectively created a medical blackout so thorough that most medical doctors have never heard of medical ozone. Others have ignored it, taking the FDA's lack of approval as a sign that the treatment is not worth their attention.
But perhaps the FDA is not the best judge. Pharmaceutical companies have representatives on nearly all FDA committees (and they provide a large percentage of medical school funding.2) It only makes sense that they would not be supportive of something which may be very effective and undersell the industry. And medical ozone has proven to be very, very effective. …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………….
But for the last thirty years it has been used successfully to treat over 40 medical conditions, from gangrene to AIDS. In 1980, a German study surveyed more than one thousand therapists who had given more than five million ozone treatments. Ninety percent of the therapists reported the treatments effective. This study also revealed that ozone had one of the lowest levels of side effects (.000005) of any medical treatment.
What's more, the ozone appeared to sensitize the body to other medical treatments, allowing doctors to use up to half the amount of drugs they would usually use for treatment.8
One of the ways in which companies have tried to profit from ozone is by patenting ozone technology. Medizone is one such company. "We filed with the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the sale of the drug produced by the equipment and its use in the treatment of AIDS" said Terrence McGrath, former Medizone president. "The FDA required that we carry out research to demonstrate its non-toxicity and likely efficacy, and that we have done."
The FDA is responsible for regulating all the drugs and medical devices marketed in the United States. It approved the use of AZT, which had been refused as a cancer drug due to its fatal toxicity prior to the AIDS pandemic. To date, the FDA has failed to approve any ozone equipment for medical use.
Many people feel the FDA is serving a vital purpose in protecting them from dangerous treatments. But Herbert L. Ley, Jr., M.D., former commissioner of the FDA has a different view: "People think the FDA is protecting them it isn't. What the FDA is doing and what people think it is doing are as different as night and day."
Medizone has spent more than two million dollars on research at major medical centers to prove ozone's safety and effectiveness. But this has still not satisfied the FDA's requirement. Conservative medicine demands double-blind studies, which are expensive and in some cases bordering on unethical. In a double-blind study, half the patients must receive a placebo in order to determine the effect of the actual treatment. This means that in order to determine if a treatment has an effect on AIDS patients, half of them must be told they are being given a cure when they are not. With a disease like AIDS, being given false treatment for a year is more than just a minor setback.
In Germany doctors are allowed to use ozone treatments, and no one is willing to put seriously ill patients through a double-blind. As Horst Kief, M.D. puts it "Perhaps in Germany we have treated no less than ten million people in the last forty years, maybe more. Now you have the biggest test with ten million people. What do you want more?"
It takes an average of eleven years for any new drug or treatment to be approved for marketing in the U.S..10 Medizone has been unable to fund a study since 1990 using large animals as required by the FDA before approval can be granted to test ozone therapy on humans.
"It's a little bewildering for us to understand the reluctance of many of the regulatory authorities to approve a clinical trial for a drug that has been on the European market the best part of twenty-five years," said Terrance McGrath in 1990.
"In the FDA, drug companies have representatives on nearly all the committees. If there is something which may be very effective and may undersell the average drug company, of course they are not going to be very pleased if it gets developed" said Michael Carpendale, M.D. "It might be very difficult for them to compete with that and ozone is obviously inexpensive to produce, and it is very potent; if it works even half as well as the Germans claim it does, everyone should be using it now."
"If somebody wants to get well I think his or her attitude will be, 'Why should I be confined to only one approach if that approach doesn't work; why am I not allowed to do anything else?'" says Arthur Levin, Ph.D, of the Health Policy Advisory Center of New York City. "I think people want to have that freedom of choice and raise legitimate questions with the system about whether they should be told by the state in a sense that there is only one or two ways they should be treated. We have in a sense a sort of state-authorized religion of healing, which is a certain kind of medicine, and anything outside that is characterized as quackery."
Most public sector medical research is funded through the National Institutes of Health (NIH) in the U.S. This is a federal agency with an annual budget of more than two billion dollars, supporting research in more than two thousand American labs. The NIH has a mandate to investigate all promising treatments in the public interest. Since its discovery, hundreds of papers about ozone treatment have been submitted to the NIH. But to date no ozone research has been done.10
The mishandling and deliberate exclusion of research in the area of ozone treatments points to a state of conflict of interests in the U.S. health care system. While on the one hand it is important to be aware that treatments for such devastating diseases as cancer and AIDS do exist, it is equally important to address the disregard given these treatments.

[V. ZAITSEV]

Ozone Therapy & Its Effects
1. Today's situation in the world
We have been seeing a massive increase in the incidence of chronic diseases of all types all over the world in the last 150 years. The reason for this is undoubtedly the toxic pollution of our planet and man's inability to adapt to it. The use of ozone (which I will describe in great detail in this monograph) has been growing in all countries in the world except the U.S.

Ozone therapy can be beneficial to most chronic illnesses as well as come acute infections. Why do 12,000,000 Germans use it daily for their chronic illnesses and why do 7,000 German physicians administer it in their offices? Because it is a very effective treatment modality.

Why has the U.S. not seen its use become common? Very simply, "money!" The pharmaceutical industry and the FDA are keeping this wonderful tool out of the hands of physicians because it might bankrupt the pharmaceutical industry if it ever got into general usage. It's very simple! Ozone is the safest therapy available on the planet for treatment of illness and might even be the least expensive (if in the hands of the public themselves). How come you don't know about it? They don't want you to!

In the last several years there have been laws passed in 10 states that protect the physician from state medical board harassment and finally great therapies will be more available to the public in these states. These laws allow non-FDA approved therapies to be used between a physician & his patient as long as "duel-consent" is in place and the patient has been thoroughly informed. The states that have passed these laws are:

Georgia
Texas
Nevada
New York
New Mexico
Oklahoma
Alaska
Washington
Colorado
North Carolina


We have decided after years of deliberating to offer ozone therapy to our patients with chronic disease. You will be asked as usual to sign many consent forms because this is considered in the U.S. an experimental and investigational therapy, although Germany and many other countries teach it in their medical schools. It is safe, effective and over time can help treat and prevent a myriad of chronic degenerative disease.

2. Background
Ozone is a blue gas at room temperature. Its formula is O3 (it has 3 oxygen atoms joined together). In the air or body it quickly converts to O2 (Oxygen) and O° (superoxide anion) which is a free radical; but is handled quickly by the increased enzyme SOD so that no damage can occur to the body.

It is produced when ultra-violet light from the sun irradiates molecular oxygen in the air or by certain generators that create it. In nature it fills a protective curtain during daylight over the earth. At night there is no "ozone curtain."

In 1840 it was first described by Scheubein and called ozone because the Greek word "ozein" is smelling. By 1851 ozone was being produced industrially. Over the years it been found useful in:

Purifying drinking water
Oxidizing organic compounds
Killing bacteria and fungi
Destroying viruses (by 1960)

It was even mentioned as a use for treating soft tissue infections by one physician in 1900.

A physicist, J. Haensler, in the 1950's developed an apparatus by giving off electrical charges generated exactly definable amounts of ozone from the use of medical oxygen. In 1954 the first patent for an apparatus to produce ozone from medical grade oxygen was issued. Today there are standard machines that generate exactly defined amounts of gas and which return the unused part back to the oxygen form.

Ozone has a half-life at room temperature of 45 minutes. Thus half is gone in 45 minutes with an accompanying increase in oxygen.

Ozone today for medical purposes is made with ozygen; the ozone part being 0.5 - 5%.

3. What are the illnesses that ozone can be used to treat (see separate sheet for complete list)?
Cancer
Infections
Immune Deficiencies
Autoimmunity
Chronic Fatigue
Fibromyalgia
Multiple Chemical Sensitivity
Allergies
Arthritis
Neurodegenerative and Neurological diseases
Etc.
4. How does ozone work?
In a simple explanation it reacts with molecules of the body to form ozonides which are quite stable (unlike free radicals). "Ozonides" can penetrate cell membranes and speed up reactions. The long-term effect of ozone can persist for years.

5. Who should not get ozone?
Active alcoholics
Recent heart attack patients
Active bleeding from any site
Pregnancy
Active hyperthyroidism
Platelet disorder patients
Patients with Ozone allergy

Summary
Ozone is a simple, safe and effective method to aid in healing of the body.

[V.Dvorianchikov]

"In the last several years there have been laws passed in 10 states that protect the physician from state medical board harassment and finally great therapies will be more available to the public in these states."
Вот сто пудов - появись у нас такой закон, уже через 3-4 года мы станем самой здоровой нацией на планете, несмотря на то, что количество номинальных врачей сократится в несколько раз.

[V. ZAITSEV]

OZONE AND SICKLE CELL ANEMIA
CAPMED, an American Corporation in Philadelphia, received Orphan Drug Designation from the U.S. FDA for the use of ozone oxygen for the treatment of Sickle Cell Anemia in March, 1992.
This coming after they completed clinical trials in cooperation with the National Institute for Scientific Research, Havana, Cuba, the Institute of Hematology and Oncology, Havana, Cuba, and the Salvador Allende Clinic, Havana, Cuba.
These trials were carried out in the years 1989, 1990 and 1991 culminating in ozone oxygen being approved by the Cuban Ministry of health for general use in the treatment of sickle cell crisis, the ulcers ensuant to sickle cell disease, and as a preventative treatment for the disease. The safety and efficacy established in these trials led to the use of ozone oxygen in the general population for healing wounds and diseases of the extremities (e.g., diabetic leg ulcers), where below or above knee amputation would be otherwise indicated.
In patients with sickle cell anemia, the reduction in the availability of oxygen for the cells, produces painful crises, organ infarction, abdominal and/or muscular pains, ulcers, etc.
On the basis of some medical properties of ozone, concerning ability to increase the rate and the capacity of absorption of oxygen in red blood cells, an evaluation about the effectiveness this treatment for the prevention and/or the timely resolution of the crisis was made.
The average time required for resolution of painful sickle cell crisis in ozone oxygen treated patients was half the number of hours required to solve painful crisis in control patients. Frequency and severity of painful crises in sickle cell anemia patients who received ongoing ozone oxygen therapy diminished in the six month followup period, in comparison with control group patients.
Sickle cell anemia, a genetic disease which involves the sickle shape of red blood cells (erythrocytes), when blood oxygen tension is low, is represented by a modified hemoglobin, HbS, due to the substitution of glutamic acid by valine in the amino acid chain.
The crystallization of the molecules of HbS occurs when those cells are deprived of oxygen up to a partial pressure of oxygen PO2 below the threshold level at which the cells sickle. In these conditions, the erythrocytes lose their normal elasticity and shape, also losing their capacity to take and deliver oxygen and increasing the viscosity of the blood.
This leads to a reduction in the availability of oxygen to the cells, producing painful crisis, infarction, abdominal and/or muscular pain, ulcers, etc. This process is reversible in the early stages, for when the HbS molecule is reoxygenated the cell distortion disappears and resumes its normal shape. The longer the period of time necessary for the reoxygenation of the molecules of HbS, the greater number of red cells die. Therefore, the increase in the partial pressure of oxygen and the promptness with which it is normalized are determining factors for the symptoms to diminish and disappear.
Numerous reports have been published on the safety and clinical results obtained by the application of medical ozone oxygen in diseases related to insufficient oxygen supply to tissues and various organs, and/or the disruption of its utilization in the cells. Ozone's virucidal effect has been reported at dose levels at which no undesirable side effects take place, offering promise as a means to inactivate viruses in human body fluids and blood products preparation.
Among the medical properties of ozone documented are the ability to increase the rate and capacity of oxygen absorption in erythrocytes and the activation of glycolysis in the cells via the pentose pathway. This enhances the production of 2,3 DPG, which is known to act as a coadjuvant of oxygen release from oxyhemoglobin at tissue level.
Both effects lead to significant improvement in oxygen supply to the body, demonstrated in vivo by the measurement of PO2 increase in arterial blood as well as the reduction in venous CO2.
In addition, the rheological properties of the blood improve, especially in regard to red blood cell aggregation. Ozone prevents rouleaux formation and clumping of cells. There is an increase in membrane permeability and flexibility, because of the effect of ozone/oxygen on it. As a consequence of these effects, reduction of blood viscosity and enhancement of blood flow are achieved.
Numerous preclinical experiments have been performed in vitro and in vivo to test possible ozone oxygen toxicity related to the therapeutic methods and ways of administration according to which medical ozone oxygen is currently applied. Controlled in vitro testing on the degree of hemolysis and "Heinz Body formation" induced by the administration of ozone to blood at adequate dosage was performed.
Not finding any significant effect, no damage to the red blood cells nor in the resistance of erythrocytes to further oxidative stress. These results are consistent with the fact that ozone stimulates several enzymatic redox systems responsible for cells protection against oxidation. Ozone is a free radical scavenger and natural antioxidant contrary to what an individual is likely to conclude at first glance.
Doses up to more than ten times the maximum therapeutic levels were tested for toxicity. These studies comprised cytotoxicity, organs function, hematological parameters, histological studies by electron microscopy, teratogenicity and cytogenetic testing. All the results demonstrated the nontoxic nature of medical ozone/oxygen within the range of therapeutic dose levels when administered intravascularly, intramuscularly and intrarectally.
Based on the role blood deoxygenation and hypoxia play in the painful sickle cell crisis, and considering the established therapeutic properties of medical ozone oxygen, and the absence of negative side effects, an evaluation of the effectiveness of this treatment for the prevention and/or the timely resolution of the crisis was made, by means of controlled in vitro and clinical trials.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Results from Bethesda Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland, indicate that ozone can also be effective against intracellular viruses when used in higher concentrations. The ozone seems to destroy only infected cells, exposing the viral material to the gas and ultimately deactivating the virus, all without creating toxicity problems.

[Zhivov]

Владимир Яковлевич,
Укажите пожалуйста источник этого сообщения о предварительно полученных результатах.

[Zhivov]

Ув. Добро,
Да об это уже Владмиру Яковлевичу писано-переписано тысячу раз. Чему Вы удивляетесь, пока в России беспредел и бардак во всем - она останется рассадником медшарлатанства. И то, что для всего мира однозначный quack, у нас пропагандируется "профессорами солидных медицинских учреждений" как панацея от всех болезней.

[V. ZAITSEV]

Добро!
Если Вы хотите и дальше набирать очки (авторитет) на форуме, проявляя бурную активность на форуме «Озонотерапия» - назовитесь. В противном случае, любые дальнейшие Ваши сообщения на этом форуме будут удаляться. Мало того, что пытаетесь судить (и ни только здесь) о вещах, о которых ни имеете представление, но ещё упорно остаетесь инкогнито. Если для Вас это норма, то для меня нет.

[Dobro]

На дворе уже 2005 год, а про озонотерапию в США 99.999% врачей знать не знают и терапия эта не входит ни в одну рекомендацию.

As of 8/14/1995, a search of the Medline, Health, AIDSline, and Cancerlit databases back to 1966 turned up more than 100 papers citing adverse effects in humans or in experimental animals caused by ozone or ozone reaction products. There were no references to papers in peer-reviewed medical journals that reported beneficial effects when ozone was used as a treatment for viral infections.
[Ссылки доступны только зарегистрированным пользователям ]

There is no scientific evidence that treatment with ozone is either safe or results in any objective benefit in the treatment of human cancer.
[Ссылки доступны только зарегистрированным пользователям ]

Ozone therapy has been suggested for many other uses, based on tradition or on scientific theories. However, these uses have not been thoroughly studied in humans, and there is limited scientific evidence about safety or effectiveness.
Ozone therapy has not been proven safe by scientific studies... Ozone therapy has been recommended to treat many conditions... There are numerous anecdotes about successful treatment with ozone therapy, although effectiveness and safety have not been proven scientifically.
[Ссылки доступны только зарегистрированным пользователям ]


Given the high risk of bias in the available studies and lack of consistency between different outcome measures, there is no reliable evidence that application of ozone gas to the surface of decayed teeth stops or reverses the decay process. There is a fundamental need for more evidence of appropriate rigour and quality before the use of ozone can be accepted into mainstream primary dental care or can be considered a viable alternative to current methods for the management and treatment of dental caries.
[Ссылки доступны только зарегистрированным пользователям ]


В то время как в России пациентов уверяют, что озонотерапия используется во всем мире, в том числе и в США очень активно.


"В настоящее время озонотерапия применяется в системе лечебно - профилактических учреждений ряда регионов Роcсии, она отличается широким спектром неспецифического действия при многих широко распространенных заболеваниях, таких как атеросклероз, ишемическая болезнь сердца, гипертоническая болезнь, заболевания органов дыхания, пищеварения, кожно-венерологическая, хирургическая, акушерско-гинекологическая, неврологическая патология, инфекционные болезни и др." - [Ссылки доступны только зарегистрированным пользователям ] Потрясающе беззастенчивое вранье.

"Области применения, показания, противопоказания:
Хирургия
абсцессы, раневая инфекция, септические состояния, перитонит, пролежни, ожоги, длительно не заживающие раны, трофические язвы, хронический остеомиелит, тромбофлебит, облитерация сосудов нижних конечностей, кардиохирургические вмешательства.
Терапия
хронический гастрит, колит, язвенная болезнь желудка и 12-перстной кишки, хронический гепатит, цирроз печени, ревматизм, артриты и артрозы, ишемическая болезнь сердца, аллергические заболевания, болезни верхних дыхательных путей, сахарный диабет.
Глазные болезни
атрофия зрительного нерва, атрофия сетчатки, травмы роговицы.
Инфекционные болезни
вирусные заболевания, в т.ч. гепатиты.
Венерические болезни
заболевания, передаваемые преимущественно половым путем (ЗПППП) и их осложнения.
Урология
пиелонефрит, цистит, уретрит, простатит.
Дерматология
фурункулез, пиодермия, герпес, грибковые поражения, склеродермия, псориаз, нейродермит, экзема, красный плоский лишай, буллезные дерматозы.
Косметология
угревая сыпь, целлюлит, локальная липодистрофия, аллопеция.
Акушерство и гинекология
воспалительные процессы половой сферы, токсикозы беременных, анемия беременных, угрожающий выкидыш, бесплодие.
Невропатология
нарушения мозгового кровообращения, заболевания периферической нервной системы, мигрень.
Стоматология
стоматит, парадонтоз, пульпит.
Анестезия, реанимация, интенсивная терапия
коррекция нарушений гомеостаза в послеоперационном, постреанимационном периоде, детоксикационная озонотерапия." Там же.
Интересно, откуда взялись эти все показания для озонотерапии по русски?
Озонотерапия у беременных - просто преступление!!!

И здесь куча показаний: Частная озонотерапия
Заболевания, связанные с атеросклеротическими поражениями сосудов
Гипертоническая болезнь
Сахарный диабет
Хронический бронхит
Бронхиальная астма
Хронический пиелонефрит
Хронический гастрит
Язвенная болезнь
Хронический неязвенный колит
Хронический гепатит
[Ссылки доступны только зарегистрированным пользователям ]
Где у людей совесть?

Добронравов Валентин Александрович.

[V. ZAITSEV]

Спасибо, что назвали своё имя, Валентин Александрович. А то был бы удивлен, если бы Вы оказались Добронравовым Владимир Александровичем, с которым у меня есть общие знакомые.
Не могли бы Вы так же сообщить, что Вам лично известно про озонотерапию, кроме цитирования чужих отзывов «экспертов», которые и сами эту терапию никогда не видели? Почему надо верить им, а не врачам, специалистам разных стран мира, которые ни один год с этой терапией связаны, исследуют?
Почему Вы спрашиваете, откуда появились «эти все показания для озонотерапии»? Вы что знакомы с публикациями сотен экспериментальных и клинических работ по этой терапии? Что дает Вам право делать утверждения типа: «Потрясающе беззастенчивое враньё»? Вам откуда это известно?

[V. ZAITSEV]

Мне неизвестно, что случилось в пятницу вечером у Валентина Александровича, если он вдруг стал бурно засыпать своими сообщениями сразу несколько дискуссий на форуме «Озонотерапия». Как и неизвестно, кто он. Этот пост не для него.

Меня, вместе с озонотерапией, на форуме уже ни раз пригвождали к позорному столбу за широкий перечень патологий, при которых ОТ показана.
Я уже несколько раз пояснял, что лечит не озон, а организм. Что специфический иммунитет отдельно для гриппа, отдельно для герпеса - лишь часть иммунитета, большинство факторов иммунитета едины для различных инфекций. Что улучшение кровотока, усиление метаболизма красной крови хорошо для любых патологий, связанных с ишемией и т.п.
Приводил достаточно большое количество совершенно независимые друг от друга исследования, что с помощью ОТ в комплексной терапии удалось существенно снизить летальность при различных септических состояниях. Мне в ответ: «не доказано», может просто в палатах пол лучше помыли или медсестра более внимательная. Однозначное улучшение целого ряда суррогатных показателей тоже ничего не доказывает: в организме ничего непонятно, какой показатель за что отвечает. Поэтому пока ОТ при перитоните не испытают в больших РКИ с плацебо, то использовать её преступление. Ну, а если это не так? Если все же врачи, которые ни один год практикуют, сравнивают терапию правы? Что это именно ОТ, а не помытый пол, позволила спасти больных. В этом случае, не использование этой терапии – не преступление? Больные на операционном столе могут ждать, когда ОТ введут в американские стандарты?
Очередной раз спрашиваю, зачем хирурги, знакомые с ОТ по многолетней повседневной практике, при переходе на новое место работы, активно стремятся получить соответствующее оборудование? Им что в неотложной хирургии за озон приплачивают?
Или, к примеру, израильские или итальянские больные, которым с помощью ОТ удалось сохранить ноги от ампутации. Опять тут говорят, что полностью не доказано, что это озон. Может это предыдущая многомесячная терапия именно в этот момент и сразу у всех больных стала работать. Ну, а если все же израильские и итальянские врачи правы и это именно ОТ сдвинула с мертвой точки лечение? Не было бы преступлением если бы они в этом случае её не использовали бы?
Опять таки «Озонотерапия у беременных - просто преступление!!!»
А женщины, которым годами безрезультатно повторяют и повторяют курсы различных антибиотиков – не преступление? Ведь уже сотни, тысячи женщин, пролеченных ОТ в различных ЛУ благополучно родили здоровых детей Так почему же это преступление? Причем мне неизвестно в России ни одного серьезного побочного эффекта, связанного с озонотерапией у беременных. Озонотерапии – это бы не простили. Серьезные побочные эффекты, вплоть до летальных, разрешены только для доказанных лекарств.

[E.E. Studentsov]

Сообщение от Gerasimov, G.

На счет странностей это еще мало сказано: вот моя родственница повела ребенка к врачу; в процессе беседы врач узнала, что у нее (родственницы) имеются небольшие узлы в щитовидной железе. В качестве лечения доктор порекомендовала ей ... клизмы с шампанским. Это была не шутка.

А шампанское в задний проход? а что если оно тоже спасает миллионы жизней!!! Разве не преступление не вводить шампанское!!! Там много пузырьков, а они тоже улучшают кровь и возбуждают организьмь.

[V. ZAITSEV]

Нет такой идеи, такого факта, которого бы нельзя было опошлить и представить в смешном виде. Ф.М. Достоевский

[Dobro]

А смешные и пошлые факты и идеи представить в смешном виде особенно легко.

Добронравов Валентин Александрович.

[V. ZAITSEV]

Валентин Александрович.
Вы так и не ответили на мой вопрос. Зачем Вы занимаетесь злословием по вещам, о которых не имеете ни малейшего представления? Для рейтинга, чтобы быть своим на форуме? Чтобы лишний раз насолить Зайцеву, который не проявляет к Вам должного уважения? Так Вы и так преследуете его во всех дискуссиях, чтобы бросить черный камень. Или у Вас такое хобби?

[Dobro]

Сообщение от V. ZAITSEV

Зачем Вы занимаетесь злословием по вещам, о которых не имеете ни малейшего представления?

Я не занимаюсь злословием, я возмущаюсь до глубины души недобросовестностью и просто преступной деятельностью некоторых отечественных врачей

Сообщение от V. ZAITSEV

Для рейтинга, чтобы быть своим на форуме?

А зачем мне это может понадобиться?

Сообщение от V. ZAITSEV

Чтобы лишний раз насолить Зайцеву, который не проявляет к Вам должного уважения?

Я и не знал о Вашем ко мне неуважительном отношении.