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Ôîðóì äëÿ îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé ïåäèàòðîâ Ôîðóì ïðåäíàçíà÷åí òîëüêî äëÿ îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé ìåæäó ñîáîé. Âîïðîñû ïàöèåíòîâ çàäàþòñÿ íà ôîðóìå Ïåäèàòðèÿ.

Îòâåò
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #91  
Ñòàðûé 08.12.2006, 22:16
papadoctor papadoctor âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.03.2005
Ãîðîä: USA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,685
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
papadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
À êàêàÿ íîðìà êðåòèíêèíàçû?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #92  
Ñòàðûé 08.12.2006, 22:58
dr.Ira dr.Ira âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 13.03.2005
Ãîðîä: Èçðàèëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,803 ðàç(à) çà 1,491 ñîîáùåíèé
dr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Because of the unusual manifestations of the child's muscle weakness involving only the lower extremity, with no cranial nerve involvement, no relationship to activity, worsening of weakness on school days, and improvement during holidays and weekends, in addition to a recent history of school difficulty, a diagnosis of conversion disorder was entertained.

A simple test strongly supported that diagnosis; 1 mL of intravenous normal saline was administered to the child after it was explained to her that this could cure her illness. Shortly after the injection, the child stood up alone and walked unassisted back and forth in the hallway. Psychiatric consultation identified school as a major stressor in the patient's life. The presence of type 1 diabetes, with its daily testing and insulin injections, was identified as a vulnerability that might have triggered the conversion reaction.

Physical therapy was initiated and the parents advised about the nature of the problem. Strategies were offered to alleviate the stressors in the child's life. The family also was advised to shift attention from the child's symptoms and to focus on recovery. The girl responded well to treatment, and follow-up showed better coping abilities and amelioration of her muscle weakness.

The Condition
Conversion disorder should be suspected when a patient's symptoms do not fit into the framework of known medical illnesses or when appropriate evaluation reveals no organic disease or plausible pathophysiologic explanation. Conversion disorders in children do not indicate a major psychiatric disorder but represent the child's subconscious plea for help in situations in which he or she cannot cope. These situations can arise from a variety of stressors, such as struggles in school, family disharmony, and sexual and physical abuse. Symptoms are referable to the CNS in 65% of children who have conversion disorders. The most usual presentations are episodic loss of awareness, such as pseudoseizures and syncope; motor dysfunction, including gait disturbances and paresis; sensory abnormalities, primarily pain and numbness; and disorders of the special senses.

Diagnosis
Once the diagnosis of conversion disorder is suspected in a child who has persistent and debilitating symptoms, a sensible evaluation plan should be created. In severe cases, hospitalization may be warranted. During the evaluation, focused investigation and testing should be pursued to be reasonably certain that there is no medically treatable cause. Psychiatric evaluation instituted simultaneously should concentrate on five main areas: 1) the levels of stress or anxiety in the child and family, 2) any special predisposing vulnerabilities in the child that might lower the threshold for coping with stress and anxiety (eg, learning disabilities, peer pressures, problems of body image, chronic illness, and family disharmony or conflict), 3) a possible temporal relationship between a specific stress and the onset of symptoms, 4) role models from whom the symptoms might have been learned, and 5) evidence of primary or secondary gain from the symptom.

Differential Diagnosis
The differential diagnosis of a child presenting with intermittent muscle weakness includes familial periodic paralysis (hypokalemic or normokalemic); metabolic myopathies, including myophosphorylase deficiency and mitochondrial deficiency; limb-girdle muscular dystrophy; myasthenia gravis; and endocrinopathies such as thyroid disorders and adrenal disorders. Delineation of the clinical pattern and laboratory testing should allow the clinician to determine if any of these disorders is present. If no other disorder fits and if significant stress is evident, a psychosomatic cause should be considered.

Treatment
Once the evaluation has been completed, a treatment plan is presented to the parents and the child. The first step is to explain that the symptom is real but that no organic disease has been demonstrated. Anxiety or stress has led to the symptom, and this element must be understood and relieved for the child to get better. The treatment must be tailored to the problem, with set goals and the provision of positive feedback as goals are achieved. In addition to measures aimed at understanding and relieving stress, treatment for a patient complaining of weakness might involve "graded" physical therapy.

Removing the secondary gain achieved by the symptom is essential for recovery and to eliminate perpetuation of the symptom. Examples of secondary gain include missed school days and increased parental attention because of the symptom. It is essential that the treatment provide "escape with honor" and that the regimen give some control to the child. After discharge, continued psychotherapy should be aimed at allowing the child to give up the sick role and cope with future stress and anxiety more productively.

Prognosis
Except for children who have pseudoseizures, most children who have a conversion disorder have no underlying major mood disorder or psychiatric illness. Major mood disorders have been identified in 32% of children who have pseudoseizures. A history of sexual abuse is common in patients who have conversion disorders.

Because children are still in the formative stages of personality development, the adult diagnosis "hysterical personality," now called "histrionic personality disorder," is questionable when applied to children who have conversion disorder. Histrionic personality disorder comprises a constellation of traits, including dependency, immaturity, egocentricity, attention-seeking behavior, and manipulation. With timely intervention, the child who has a conversion disorder will develop better coping abilities and give up the sick role, thus aborting perpetuation of the symptom and progression to an adult histrionic personality disorder.

Further Observations
This patient had a chronic illness and had become aware of its power to influence the adults in her world. Another example of this effect is that pseudoseizures are common in children who have true epilepsy.

Clinical testing should be judicious because the tests themselves promote anxiety and confirm and reinforce the power and seriousness of the symptom. The child herself is deceived about the source of her symptoms, and families of children who have conversion disorders tend to have conversion symptoms, reinforcing the impressionable child's symptomatology. The clinician must be firm in the diagnosis of conversion and resist his or her own anxiety, which tends to produce the need to do more testing. The simple test employing intravenous saline was an effective diagnostic tool in this case, but it is important that clinicians undertake such procedures with sensitivity to avoid their being perceived by the patient as a trick, potentially undermining trust.

The use of physical therapy was a face-saving treatment for the patient and more likely to be acceptable to patient and parents than a purely psychiatric approach, which can be counterproductive if instituted at the wrong time. Similarly, early hospitalization can raise the stakes ominously. Sometimes, psychotherapy will be acceptable if the reason given for recommending such treatment is "to help you cope with the stress of being ill for so long."

Lessons for the Clinician
Conversion disorder represents a child's expression of a difficult or stressful situation through a physical symptom. The pediatrician, being familiar with the child and parents, should be able to gain the trust of the child and identify stressors and difficulties in the child's life. Psychiatric referral and sometimes hospitalization are crucial for the recovery of children whose symptoms are prolonged and unresponsive to counseling by the pediatrician.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #93  
Ñòàðûé 08.12.2006, 22:59
dr.Ira dr.Ira âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 13.03.2005
Ãîðîä: Èçðàèëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,803 ðàç(à) çà 1,491 ñîîáùåíèé
dr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò papadoctor
À êàêàÿ íîðìà êðåòèíêèíàçû?
Ïîñëå 100 ïåðâûõ ÷àñîâ æèçíè îò 5 äî 130 (Íåëüñîí).

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
papadoctor îäîáðèë(à): Thanks!
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #94  
Ñòàðûé 13.12.2006, 10:45
dr.Ira dr.Ira âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 13.03.2005
Ãîðîä: Èçðàèëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,803 ðàç(à) çà 1,491 ñîîáùåíèé
dr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Äóìàþ, ÷òî áûñòðåé âñåõ ýòó çàäà÷ó ðåøàò àíåñòåçèîëîãè-ðåàíèìàòîëîãè.

A 10-month-old boy is brought to a community ED because he started vomiting last night and “has not and “has not been the same since.” This morning, his mother noted that he was breathing fast. He had a low-grade fever this morning, but none prior. He has had no weight loss or diarrhea and
has not been exposed to illness. Intravenous access is obtained, and the child is intubated because of respiratory distress and is flown to a children’s
hospital.On examination, the boy’s temperaturei s 37.6°F (99.7°C), heart rate is 158 beats/min, and blood pressure is 90/44 mm Hg. His respiratory rate had been 60 breaths/min prior to being intubated.He is a plump, robust infant who is sedated on the ventilator. Faint crackles are audible in his lungs. His skin is warm and well perfused.The rest of his findings are normal.
Laboratory findings include glucose,
176 mg/dL (9.8 mmol/L);
sodium 140 mEq/L (140 mmol/L);
potassium, 3.1 mEq/L (3.1 mmol/);
chloride, 115 mEq/L (115 mmol/L);
bicarbonate, 10 mEq/L (10 mmol/L);
calculated anion gap, 15 mEq/L(15 mmol/L);
BUN, 5 mg/dL (1.8 mmol/L);
creatinine,0.3 mg/dL (26.5 mcmol/L).
A blood gas reveals a pHof 7.29 with
a bicarbonate level of 14 mEq/L(14 mmol/L),a carbon dioxide concentration
of 14 torr, and a base deficit
of 18.6 mEq/L.
His WBC count is
14.9103/mcL (14.9109/L) with
71% neutrophils and 2% bands.
He is started on vasoactive medication for hypotension and treated for sepsis, but the clinicians are concerned that he has had minimal fever and no rash, and the laboratory findings are puzzling.

An additional blood test reveals the diagnosis.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #95  
Ñòàðûé 13.12.2006, 11:39
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Nathalie
Dr.Nathalie Dr.Nathalie âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ïî÷åòíûé ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 09.08.2003
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 24,881
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 5,532 ðàç(à) çà 4,217 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Nathalie ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
37.6°F (99.7°C),
Õîððîøàÿ îïå÷àòêà!
Íå ñîâñåì ïîíèìàþ, çà ÷òî ðåáåíîê ïåðåâåäåí íà ÈÂË (òîëüêî èç-çà îäûøêè 60 â ìèíóòó è êðåïèòàöèè â ëåãêèõ?) Ãåìîäèíàìèêà ñòàáèëüíàÿ, íàðóøåíèé ïåðèôåðè÷åñêîãî êðîâîîáðàùåíèÿ íåò, òåì íå ìåíåå, ïðîâîäèòñÿ èíîòðîïíàÿ ïîääåðæêà (êñòàòè, ÷åì è â êàêîé äîçå?). ×òî íà ðåíòãåíîâñêîì ñíèìêå?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #96  
Ñòàðûé 13.12.2006, 11:48
dr.Ira dr.Ira âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 13.03.2005
Ãîðîä: Èçðàèëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,803 ðàç(à) çà 1,491 ñîîáùåíèé
dr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Íàòàëüÿ, âñÿ, èìåþùàÿñÿ â óñëîâèè èíôîðìàöèÿ, âûëîæåíà.

 êà÷åñòâå ïîäñêàçêè :
Êàêîé âåäóùèé êëèíè÷åñêèé ñèíäðîì èìååòñÿ â íàëè÷èè ó ýòîãî ìëàäåíöà?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #97  
Ñòàðûé 13.12.2006, 16:57
papadoctor papadoctor âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.03.2005
Ãîðîä: USA
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,685
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
papadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåpapadoctor ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ìåòàáîëè÷åñêèé àöèäîç ñ êîìïåíñàòîðíîé ãèïåðâåíòèëÿöèåé. Àíèîíîâàÿ ùåëü ïðèñóòñòâóåò. Íóæíî äåëàòü toxscreen è ñêîðåå âñåãî ïîëó÷èì îòðàâëåíèå ñàëèöèëàòàìè.

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Alon îäîáðèë(à):
yananshs îäîáðèë(à):
dr.Ira îäîáðèë(à): À âîò òåïåðü è ÿ ìîãó îäîáðèòü:-)! Îäîáðÿëêà ñðàáîòàëà.
Dobro îäîáðèë(à):
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #98  
Ñòàðûé 16.12.2006, 18:45
dr.Ira dr.Ira âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 13.03.2005
Ãîðîä: Èçðàèëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,803 ðàç(à) çà 1,491 ñîîáùåíèé
dr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Discussion

1)The child had an anion gap acidosis,
but no evidence of a disorder that
would cause lactic acidosis.
2)Although
he had been vomiting for 12 hours,
he had no other insensible losses to
explain the rapid deterioration.
3) Diabetic
ketoacidosis seemed unlikely
because his glucose level never exceeded
200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L).

The wide anion gap acidosis
prompted measurement of salicylate
concentrations, although there was
no history of ingestion. Salicylates
were present at a toxic level of
60 mg/dL (4.3 mmol/L). The patient
was alkalinized immediately and
dialyzed. In 24 hours, he was extubated
and was doing well.

Laboratory Clues

Severe dehydration from vomiting or
diarrhea can cause a significant lactic
acidosis due to tissue hypoxemia and
hypoperfusion. However, this child
had only a brief history of vomiting.
The rapid breathing and respiratory
distress that required intubation led
the clinicians to consider an underlying
metabolic derangement. Other
disorders to consider in this case are
methanol toxicity, uremia, diabetic
ketoacidosis, paraldehyde ingestion,
iron and isoniazid toxicities, lactic acidosis,
and ethylene glycol ingestion.
The addition of salicylism to the list
creates the “MUDPILES” mnemonic.
In this case, the child’s mother
later discovered that one of the siblings
had given the infant several
adult aspirin tablets. Although the
ingestion history was not known at
the time of admission, a thorough
investigation of the child’s wide anion
gap acidosis led to the diagnosis.
Other supporting laboratory findings
included the potassium concentration
of 3.1 mEq/L (3.1 mmol/L) and
serum bicarbonate level of 10 mEq/L
(10 mmol/L).

The Disorder

Aspirin toxicity remains one of the
most serious ingestions in the pediatric
population. Despite the recent
declining incidence, there still are approximately
16,000 cases yearly of
aspirin overdose in this country, resulting
in 30 to 35 deaths. An acute
toxic dose for a child is greater than
150 mg (approximately one half of a
325-mg adult tablet) per kg. Although
overall use of aspirin has decreased,
most households in the
United States still contain salicylates
in one form or another (tablets, bismuth
compounds, keratolytic agents).

Pathophysiology

Salicylates have a broad scope of action,
especially in toxic doses, because
of their ability to uncouple oxidative
phosphorylation, inhibit
amino acid synthesis, and inhibit
Krebs cycle enzymes. The emesis and
nausea that patients experience after
aspirin ingestion are related to direct
gastric irritation. Other effects include
altered hearing (usually tinnitus),
fever, and altered mental status
that can range from agitation to seizures
to stupor and coma.
In the initial phase of aspirin overdose,
patients experience respiratory
alkalosis due to direct stimulation of
the CNS respiratory drive. To correct
this alkalosis, bicarbonate is excreted
in the urine, causing alkaluria. Initially,
potassium also is excreted in
the urine, leading to global hypokalemia.
In the next phase of salicylate
toxicity, the kidneys attempt to preserve
the potassium level by an exchange
for hydrogen ions in the
urine. This paradoxic aciduria in the
face of a respiratory alkalosis is a hallmark
of aspirin toxicity.
In the final stages of aspirin overdose,
hyperpnea continues as a response
to the primary metabolic acidosis.
This exaggerated breathing
contributes further to insensible water
losses. Although adults tend to
have a mixed respiratory alkalosis and
metabolic acidosis, acidosis often
predominates in young children. Finally,
as in this infant, salicylates increase
pulmonary vasculature permeability,
leading to noncardiogenic
pulmonary edema.

Laboratory Evaluation

Several studies should be ordered in
cases of suspected salicylate toxicity.
Electrolytes, BUN, creatinine, arterial
blood gases, complete blood
count, and liver function tests should
be checked immediately. Hypokalemia
is common and can be severe.
Salicylate levels should be checked
immediately if ingestion is suspected
and subsequently checked every 2 to
4 hours until decreasing or reaching
less than 30 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L).
Although levels typically peak 4 to
6 hours after aspirin ingestion and
correlate poorly with clinical symptoms,
prolonged peaking of salicyindex
of suspicion
426 Pediatrics in Review Vol.27 No.11 November 2006
lates occurs with ingestion of entericcoated
tablets or in the presence of
any obstruction in the GI tract, such
as a pill bezoar or pylorospasm.
As in this patient, if the diagnosis
is uncertain, additional laboratory
testing should be undertaken to rule
out other causes of anion gap acidosis.
Serum lactate, osmolarity, and a
urinalysis looking for ketones can be
helpful. It also may be useful to measure
iron and alcohol levels (looking
for methanol and ethylene glycol).
As always, a thorough history is indicated,
particularly focusing on all
medications, including over-thecounter
items, in the household.

Treatment

If the patient is alert, activated charcoal
should be administered. Gastric
lavage usually is not recommended
unless the ingestion is believed to
have been a large, life-threatening
dose and has been brought to medical
attention within 1 hour. Most
important in the treatment of salicylism
is the correction of multiple metabolic
derangements and dehydration.
Initially, fluid boluses should be
considered in the face of severe dehydration.
Caution must be exercised
in the presence of pulmonary edema
or renal failure.
Alkalinization enhances salicylate
elimination and should be instituted
promptly. A goal for serum pH
should be approximately 7.5, with a
goal for urinary pH of greater than
7.5. Standard recommendations suggest
using a 1 to 2-mEq/kg bolus of
bicarbonate followed by a sodium bicarbonate
drip. Because persistent
hypokalemia may interfere with alkalinization
of the urine and salicylate
excretion, it is critical to add potassium
to fluids in patients who do not
have renal failure.
Dialysis should be instituted if the
serum salicylate level is greater than
100 mg/dL (7.2 mmol/L) in acute
toxicity or if there are signs of pulmonary
edema, renal failure, persistent
altered mental status, worsening vital
signs such as fever, or congestive
heart failure.
Intubation might be considered
in the most seriously ill patients. Clinicians
should realize, however, that
intubation of the patient poisoned by
salicylates can be dangerous. The patient’s
own ability to hyperventilate
and regulate acidosis is suppressed,
and he or she may develop worsening
acidosis.
Rarely do long-term sequelae result
from salicylate toxicity. When
recognized and treated early, most
pediatric patients do very well.

Lessons for the Clinician

It is important to consider salicylism
in the differential diagnosis of a child
who has an anion gap acidosis. In this
case, a careful review of the initial
history, physical findings, and laboratory
studies narrowed the differential
diagnosis significantly. Early recognition
and treatment can be life-saving.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #99  
Ñòàðûé 18.12.2006, 10:56
dr.Ira dr.Ira âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 13.03.2005
Ãîðîä: Èçðàèëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,803 ðàç(à) çà 1,491 ñîîáùåíèé
dr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Áîëü â íîãå.

A 4-year-old Arabic boy has experienced leg pain for the past 2 months. He localizes the pain to the middle of his right thigh, sometimes extending to his knee. He is able to run and play, but pain recurs at the end of vigorous play, is worse at the end of the day, and often wakes him at night. It is relieved by aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). There is no history of trauma, redness, swelling, fever, weight loss, or rashes. The patient has had no similar complaints in the past. There is no family history of bone or joint diseases. He was born in the United States but has lived in Lebanon for the past year.

On physical examination, the boy's temperature is 99.1 F (37.3 C), pulse is 108 beats/min, respiratory rate is 28 breaths/min, and blood pressure is 103/68 mm Hg. He localizes pain to the middle of his right thigh, but there is no tenderness, swelling, or erythema in that area. There is full range of motion at both the right hip and knee joints, and strength is 5/5.

Laboratory values include a WBC count of 8.5x103/dL (8.5x109/L), Hgb level of 13.3 g/dL (133 g/L), platelet count of 455x103/dL (455x109/L), ESR of 22 mm/hr, and C-reactive protein level of 2.85 mg/dL.

×òî ïðåäëîæèì â ïëàíå îáñëåäîâàíèÿ?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #100  
Ñòàðûé 20.12.2006, 00:46
Àâàòàð äëÿ Nancy
Nancy Nancy âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 07.01.2006
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,318
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 30
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 127 ðàç(à) çà 124 ñîîáùåíèé
Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå: 1
Nancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ðåíòãåí íóæíî ñäåëàòü.
Åñëè ìíå íå èçìåíÿåò ïàìÿòü, áîëè ïîäîáíîãî õàðàêòåðà, êóïèðóþùèåñÿ àñïèðèíîì, õàðàêòåðíû äëÿ...îñòåîèä-îñòåîìû...Èëè ÿ îøèáàþñü?

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
dr.Ira îäîáðèë(à):
Dr. W.N. îäîáðèë(à): îêàçûâàåòñÿ, ïîìíþ ñ 5 êóðñà, íî ñêàçàòü îïàñàëñÿ
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #101  
Ñòàðûé 20.12.2006, 11:00
dr.Ira dr.Ira âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 13.03.2005
Ãîðîä: Èçðàèëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 9,362
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,803 ðàç(à) çà 1,491 ñîîáùåíèé
dr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådr.Ira ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
A plain radiograph of the right hip and femur showed an approximately 1-cm, focal, lytic lesion with sclerotic margins at the interior cortex of the proximal right femoral diaphysis. There was no evidence of periosteal reaction, associated soft-tissue mass, or pathologic fracture. The soft tissue was unremarkable. The visualized hip and pelvis were within normal limits. Findings were believed to be consistent with osteoid osteoma, and the CT scan made that diagnosis more certain . Histologic examination of a specimen obtained by CT-guided biopsy of the lesion confirmed the diagnosis of osteoid osteoma.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #102  
Ñòàðûé 10.01.2008, 12:21
ruptv ruptv âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë æåíñêèé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 20.12.2007
Ñîîáùåíèé: 72
ruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ìíå ïîíðàâèëîñü.

Íîâîðîæäåííûé ìëàäåíåö ïåðåâåäåí â îòäåëåíèå ïàòîëîãèè íîâîðîæäåííûõ èç-çà âûðàæåííûõ óñèëåííûõ äâèæåíèé ãðóäíîé êëåòêè ïðè äûõàíèè ÷åðåç 15 ìèíóò ïîñëå ðîæäåíèÿ. Ðîäû âàãèíàëüíûå, áåç îñëîæíåíèé, Àïãàð 9/9.
Ïðè îñìîòðå ïåäèàòðîì â îòäåëåíèè ïàòîëîãèè íîâîðîæäåííûõ ÷åðåç 20 ìèíóò ïîñëå ðîæäåíèÿ îòìå÷àåòñÿ ñëåäóþùåå:
Ò 37 P.R., ×ÑÑ 158, ×ÄÄ 42, ÀÄ 55/16, Sat O2 100%
Àóñêóëüòàöèÿ ëåãêèõ â íîðìå, íåáîëüøàÿ ðåòðàêöèÿ ì/ðåáåðíûõ ïðîìåæóòêîâ, íåò âûðàæåííîãî ðåñïèðàòîðíîãî äèñòðåññà.
Ïðè àóñêóëüòàöèè ñåðäöà - ãðîìêèé ãîëîñèñòîëè÷åñêèé øóì, ëó÷øå âñåãî ñëûøåí ïî ïðàâîé ñòåðíàëüíîé ëèíèè ñâåðõó, àêðîöèàíîç íîâîðîæäåííûõ, êàïèëëÿðíûé âîçâðàò 3 ñåê.
Íåâðîëîãèÿ - àêòèâíûé, íîðìàëüíûé íîâîðîæäåííûé.
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Âàøè ïðåäïîëîæåíèÿ? ×òî áû ýòî ìîãëî áûòü?

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
yananshs îäîáðèë(à):
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #103  
Ñòàðûé 10.01.2008, 13:29
Àâàòàð äëÿ Nancy
Nancy Nancy âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 07.01.2006
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,318
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 30
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 127 ðàç(à) çà 124 ñîîáùåíèé
Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå: 1
Nancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNancy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
ruptv,

Íàäî ïîëàãàòü, ïàöèåíò íå êàðäèîëîãè÷åñêèé?) Äèàôðàãìàëüíàÿ ãðûæà?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #104  
Ñòàðûé 10.01.2008, 14:54
ruptv ruptv âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë æåíñêèé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 20.12.2007
Ñîîáùåíèé: 72
ruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåruptv ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Nancy Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
ruptv,
Äèàôðàãìàëüíàÿ ãðûæà?
Íåò.
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Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #105  
Ñòàðûé 10.01.2008, 17:34
Nikulin Denis Nikulin Denis âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 12.09.2006
Ãîðîä: Êèðîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 108
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 3
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 15 ðàç(à) çà 9 ñîîáùåíèé
Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå: 2
Nikulin Denis ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNikulin Denis ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNikulin Denis ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNikulin Denis ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNikulin Denis ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåNikulin Denis ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ïåðâîå î ÷åì ïîäóìàë: ñòåíîç àîðòû
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
Îòâåò



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